To really quite dislike my teenage DS?

[Alldressedup]

Really would welcome some views on this please. Just got home from holiday with DH, DS14 and DD13. Yet again it was spoiled in parts by DS constant foul mood, incessant moaning and whining, intolerance of anything and anyone who wasn’t British, nit picking at his DS, snapping at everyone. He was pretty much awful for 75% of his waking hours.

The holiday on paper was / should have been great. It’s not like we were forcing him to do anything he wouldn’t/ any other child wouldn’t ordinarily like. Plenty of time to rest and relax too mixed with some days sightseeing etc.

He’s been like this for the last 4 years or so. It’s incredibly draining, it’s as though he says every awful thing that comes into his head. He literally cannot stop moaning and complaining all the sodding time. And some things he says are just vile, especially about other people he doesn’t know, I don’t know where he gets it from or who he is. I know he’s a teenager and at the mercy of his raging hormones, it just seems very extreme and I don’t particularly like him if I’m honest which is upsetting.

Does this sound within the realms of normal teenage behaviour to you?

Yes sounds like a teenager, have 3. If you have had a chat and are sure it's nothing more than teenager hormones etc then I would start getting strict. He can't have a phone/hobby/social life that you pay for and be this unpleasant..I would take away phone/gaming time and set out your expectations for behaviour and how much tidying/help you want around the house, whatever you want to see. Whenever there is an improvement he gets phone/gaming time back. Sometimes I think you just need to spell it out for them..they need boundaries.
Trying to find something you can do together is also good even if its just going out for a meal.

What if you pointed it out to him every time? A sort of reprogramming?
That's the approach I took with my moaning ds.
"Why are you moaning that I've asked you to bring your dirty dishes down? Do you want mould and maggots in your room or do you think I should be doing everything for you? What do you think should be done here?"

"Why are you moaning about the weather? I know it's disappointing that we can't do what we wanted but let's rise to the challenge and suggest something else we could do"

"Why are you being mean about normal people going about their business? What have they actually done to you?"

I often used to tell my ds "don't let your first reaction always be negative because it's rubbish for everyone to hear it."

I'd also point out to him
"You moaned so much about going to this place and now you've enjoyed it. What was the moaning for then? Don't let your first reaction always be negative"

It's worked for ds. He's aware of it now and keeps himself in check.

OP, are you me??? Mine does a little less of the huffing and puffing about helping these days, but literally just moaned his way through an entire short break in London. Also with the racism, yesterday he told me hates Americans (I replied ‘all 300 million of them? Even Mr Beast?’, but find it much harder to make a joke of it when it’s directed at minorities or recent immigrants.) He is also quite self aware though, and will tell me that he is selfish and says stupid shit because he’s a teenager (he is charmingly convinced that at 18 he will magically transform into a mature adult). With the moaning thing he was totally unaware of how bad it was, he knew that he had voiced complaints, but didn’t realise how many times he’d done it, or that other people were also experiencing the same things (being hungry and being tired) without ruining it for everyone else. So, no advice, just solidarity! It sounds like you have a good relationship, this aspect aside, fingers crossed he’ll have a brain growth spurt soon and give you a break!

Urgh sounds like the holiday we had recently with my DS15.

It made all the normal teenage grump worse 10 fold. He really put a downer on everything. That being said my parents still talk about a holiday with me at 15. I had no reason for being foul other than the hormones. They think this recent holiday with DS was payback!

The moaning and complaining about tasks in the house is regular enough if my teens were anything to go by and l remember doing it to my own poor mom years ago.
14 was the worst age for us with ds on holidays. He didn't want to do anything. He struggled being with us as thought he was too cool to be hanging out like a kd with his parents even though in the home he was mostly fine.
He may be saying the racist stuff to shock you both. I remember doing that to my dad at that age about the Catholic Church..l loved to go as far as possible just to see the shock on his face. I turned out pretty regular and adored my dad for the rest of his life.
Could you either ignore him so no attention or just once let rip saying l never want to hear that stuff coming out of your mouth again. Try both!
But don't waste energy discussing life issues wearing yourself out.
My ds said an interesting thing once which stuck with me. We were talking about some stuff like this and he said..l think most people don't move too far from their parents beliefs once they come to this age: 19. He was saying it in the context of his college friends and issues in society. So model what you believe. By your actions more than your words and he will come around.
Let your love be undeserved..for the moment.

Parents are so much more tolerant and understanding of teens moods and hormones these days (undoubtedly a good thing). I remember, as a teen in the early 80, being told to give the moaning a bloody rest as I was making my mother's ears bleed 😆

Sounds very nasty, and the xenophobia is bad - please monitor this.

Can you look at his phone? Get him to hand it to you after school and overnight? Plus tablets etc. How much sleep is he getting? What’s he viewing?

Agree with PP, get him to open up and find out if something bad has happened. Explore therapy options, and ask to see the pastoral care lead at school.

Thanks. I’m relieved to hear similar tales from others including the intolerance. It’s not just a racist issue - he can’t stand old people, young children, anyone else to be honest so it can be quite universal 😂

I have told him in no uncertain terms what the impact is of it. I even spoke with him fire we went away in anticipation. As a PP said, a lot of the moaning is about things out of our control eg it’s too warm, waiting in a queue, hungry - and I point out we’re all experiencing the same yet managing not to moan because there is no point, but still be continues. He knows he’s pissed me off, which I’m glad about because he needs to know I can only take so much.

The huffing and puffing I get when I ask him to bring his dirty pots down from his room is unbelievable do you do it back? Everything you do for him, huff and puff back, every task you undertake. I did this when my sons were much younger when they complained about some chore, so every meal that day, every load of laundry, when I got the hoover out I complained loudly so they could see what is like to be around someone miserable instead of my usual upbeat self.

Talk to him about how it would feel if he were talking about what he loves (his hobby) and you spoiled it by being miserable about it?

Also I would talk to him about how the holiday is for you as well as him and that lots of children stop going on holiday with their parents at 17/18 so you only have a few years of holidays left with him then he can pay for his own.

But talking, always try to talk. Ds2 used to complain when we had to walk somewhere so we had a word that we used that pointed out his negative comments and he was challenged to find a positive instead. He was younger though, maybe 10 but it can help change their mindset.

There is backed scientific research that if you wake up and say today will be a good day your brain actively looks for good things during the day, you can then look back on your day and it should be easier to recall good things.

I'm not sure how common it is or not, it's not normal in my house, but I wouldn't laugh off the "racist issue", it is something that needs to be approached firmly, rapidly, intolerably now, by you and your husband. Not laughed off. I don't care what hormones he has in his system, it is not acceptable, and whether it's a phase or not is no comfort to the people around him at school and elsewhere experiencing his little "racist issue".

That’s sounds very familiar 🤣

My DC was hostile and, at times, vile towards me at this age. It was draining, thoroughly draining

They were diagnosed with ASD and severe depression (privately because the NHS waiting lists were two years long).

Happy to report that they are truly lovely a few years down the line. I’m really proud of the person they’ve become, kind, generous hearted, lots of friends, hard working and just great to have around.

My DS16 was the same at 14: holidays were really hard work. For various reasons we ended up camping a lot, and he really didn’t like it once he was 11+. The best holidays we’ve had have been activity based - diving, paddling etc.

The casual slagging off of Americans / woke / etc comes from what they are seeing / hearing online. I honestly think adolescent males are the most culturally conservative group ever - especially compared to girls at the same age, who are all ‘be kind’ and accepting (of too much sometimes). I challenge it and don’t just let it go - but it doesn’t make for a nice holiday atmosphere to constantly be jumping on every comment and getting into fights 🤷‍♀️.

this will sound a bit out there, but getting my teen son into Stoicism (which I myself was reading a lot of at the time) really helped. It was useful that he already followed quite a lot of modern stoic ‘bros’ online, and he really responded to the ‘take responsibility for yourself / get up and make your own bed every day / if it can be borne, then bear it - and don’t complain’ messages.

He knows his pissed you off but will he care ? So what are the consequences for him ruining your holiday. I'm sorry but he sounds like a spoilt brat. I would be fuming. Take his stuff away until he learns some manners . Get his dad to come down on him too why is he ignoring his son's horrible behaviour ? Toughen up

@pearvines I think you might be replying to my comment so I just wanted to clarify that I never laugh off racism. I actually find it really challenging to put aside the very strong emotions his comments arouse in me in order to deal with it in a constructive way. In the case of the sweeping comment about the entire population of America I felt that humour/ teasing was probably the most effective way to get him to reflect on what he had said. We live outside the UK in a country where there is a lot of casual, everyday racism, including from my ex partner, so it’s a constant battle to try to teach my values without him rejecting them because ‘I’m always banging on about it and anyway everyone else does it so what’s the problem’. If I sounded flippant it’s because I wanted to show the op that she is not alone and cheer her up a bit.

Some people just complain all the time it’s their nature. I have a relative that does this the best thing to do ime is to ignore it and divert as much as you can.

@Ohthere no don't worry I wasn't referring to you, have haven't tracked the thread very well tbh, I was referring to the for OP dismissing it in her last reply with a laughing emoji by saying he's universally rude to people, as if saying racist things don't matter if he's rude to other people.

You dislike your own kid because he's 14 and moaning all the time? I'm sure he can sense this from you. Terrible parenting to even admit not liking your son. Shame

I can relate. I call him my mood hoover. Critical of everything, would argue black was white, draining...definitely the glass is half empty. I have to say he's coming out of it a bit now he's almost 18 but I think it's his personality and he'll always have an element of it.

My son was exactly the same (actually even worse) at that age but it didn't manifest at 10 years old. He was still a lovely "normal" kid at that age. However, he dropped out of school at 13 and effectively disengaged from friends, hobbies and the world. He began a very long mental health journey that nearly destroyed me mentally, physically and financially as a single parent.

Obviously with your son some of it really is "Kevin the Teenager" (not trying to trivialise) but boys can be absolutely fucking vile at that age. On the positive side, your son seems to be OK at school, he has friends and a hobby he loves but are you sure the bullying has been sorted?

My DS is 14. And has a younger sister (although a bit younger than yours).
What you are describing sounds quite normal to me. Although not all the time. He's like that when he's tired. Or embarrassed to be with us (eg if a group of teenage girls is there and he's with his mum and little sister)
This year was the first holiday in a long time when I didn't cry on the first day from the ungratefulness and mardiness.
However this is tempered by the fact he has days when he's the funniest boy I've ever met. When he's loving and caring and aware that he has a bloody good life.
I wouldn't stand for the issues with intolerance to others though.
The moaning and puffing about dirty pots etc is 💯 what I get from him. He's a lazy bugger.

Is he chronically online?

Holidays which meet all the family's needs and desires can be quite hard to engineer. It sounds as if your DS is already not terribly well adjusted to day-to-day life and maybe a holiday was even more challenging for him.

The intolerant comments are probably just to get a rise out of you.

Do you do much together at home? Have quality 1:1 time?

If he’s like this day to day it’s good to get him weekly councelling

Moaning can be normal teenage behaviour, xenophobia isn’t. What is he watching online? Are his friends racist?