You can’t relativise sadness … but surely you can?

[comoatoupeira]

I see and hear a lot of stuff at the moment about how you can’t make people feel better by saying that it could have been worse or you’re fortunate compared to other people.

The idea at the moment seems to be that everyone has their own way of feeling sad and everyone has the right to feel sad without other people saying they shouldn’t.
I get it and I can see how it’s important to face up to your own feelings about stuff without being judged.

But I was just reflecting this morning on that mum whose daughter is in the hull of that ship, drowned for sure but she’s waiting for the confirmation, and I was comparing it to when I was waiting for some really bad news (cancer results), which was the worst fortnight of my life and I have never felt so low and I was just thinking: actually, the woman in the yaught tragedy actually does have it a lot worse. Off the scale worse.

AIBU to think that yes you can relativise sorrow, and it’s actually the decent thing to do when we live in a community?

I agree, but then I’ve always been a Pollyanna.

Maybe the people who have voted YABU could explain from a psychological or ethical point of view? I’m sure I’m missing something.

I would imagine the pain of losing your own child trumps all other pains. We are biologically predisposed to sacrifice our own lives for our children, so so agree, her torment is off the scale.

The thing is is for example when someone I don’t know loses their dog and they say it feels like losing a relative and you say that’s fine, you can’t compare, everyone feels in their own way, that’s not honestly what people are thinking in their heads. Same as when people say you can feel just as much grief about a MC at 6 weeks as you can about stillbirth. Maybe you can, but privately everyone is thinking “a stillbirth is much worse”.
How can we deal with this feeling of hypocrisy? You don’t say what you feel because it’s hurtful. But you feel guilty to be having these thoughts. Anyone relate?

Sure, if a person arrives at that conclusion themselves. I read about an animal abuse case a few years ago which stuck with me because it was so awful. Any suffering I've been through pales into comparison of what those poor animals went through.

When my dh died a few years ago a family member told me "remember there are starving children in the world" and that didn't help much really.

Yes, I see the difference. Because if you are saying “remember there are starving children in the world” it’s so flippant, it’s just a masked way of saying “we are tired of your sadness”. Whereas if you actually talk about something specific, gently, patiently, it can help them see where they are related to other people.

I agree you can, but it's when to say it and how you say it is the issue. 'It could be worse' might be appropriate for someone who is moping for months feeling sorry for themselves and making bad decisions, not appropriate days after bad news. A pet hate of mine is when someone has bad news and they are told they are lucky, like in the next breath. If you had a fall and shattered your leg you are not 'lucky' the other one is OK. I know someone who does this so often that I tend to hold back on personal information.

So yes I agree you can compare but mostly I think keep it to yourself.

I am sorry for your loss @Quacksalver (sincerely)

That is off the scale inappropriate and insensitive. I am sorry for your loss.

I think you have a point OP but maybe it's about personal reflection rather than someone else making the comparison.

I don’t think you can relativise the actual direct experience as you feel it.

But if you have had exposure to genuinely life changing grief such as a life limiting illness or the death of a spouse it does increase you capacity to put things into perspective.

For example I remember as a child being devastated when a beloved cat died. If one of my beautiful cats died today I would equally be sad and bereft but having had close friends die of cancer in their 40s I would be able to appreciate that the scale of my grief was more limited.

Totally agree @Alalalalalongalalalalalonglonglilong .

Like yesterday when there was that horrific arson attack by some arsehole who killed three kids and their mum and all the cards said “fly with the angels” and “have fun in heaven” and you just think: it’s way to early to put a positive spin on this. Whether you believe in heaven or not. They literally burned to death a few hours ago. There is no silver lining.

I would say that “comparison is the thief of joy” could be extended to “comparison is not comforting”. How is it anything to do with your sadness that someone else is sadder?

Of course you can, but you shouldn't directly to someone who is going through something awful.

When you were waiting for your cancer results, can you honestly say someone putting a hand on your shoulder and going "at least someone out there has it worse than you" would've comforted you?

Yes you can relativise pain and suffering, and the reality is that whatever you're going through there's someone out there suffering worse than you, but you just don't say it to someone in the midst of suffering. It's insensitive and callous.

I don't think you can really expect to apply numerical data to emotional responses.

Sure, you could devise a system to quantify the severity of different life events and assign a points value to each aspect of the event to determine the severity of each experience one could have, but (1) it would never be truly objective as not everyone will agree on how each of the nuances of a situation should score and (2) people's emotional reactions are largely subjective anyway, so even if you say "this event should give you x amount of sadness", each person will react differently to the same set of circumstances.

Emotions are hard to quantify. I imagine that poor woman, who has also lost her husband and friends, is in such a deep state of shock she barely feels anything right now.

Ive had a recent and very close bereavement. Mostly I still feel disbelief which is easier than the raw pain but when it appears it’s pretty all consuming. It’s not a race to the bottom though. Rationally of course others are suffering worse.

On the other end of the scale is happiness. When you feel absolutely your very happiest that’s how you feel. Others would feel differently.

@Quacksalver I hope you gave that family member a punch and then a very wide berth.

It’s a philosophical question. There’s no right or wrong answer. I often think about how joyless and hard peoples’ lives were 200 years ago in this country and in many parts of the world today. It certainly can stop you feeling sorry for yourself! But we are allowed to feel sad. I was very sad when my partner died, he was relatively young, but I don’t think it could compare to the distress of the families of Bebe, Alice and Elsie in Southport or the families of Grace, Barnaby and Ian in Nottingham.

It's very personal. For me, losing my lovely dh was a million times worse than losing my abusive mother will be. But for other people, losing their beloved mum would be far worse than losing their abusive dh. Losing a child is probably the worst for most people

No @MonsteraMama you're right. It wouldn’t have helped, it would have made me furious and feel alone in my feelings.

It’s only afterwards that the comparison is somehow comforting or humbling.

I think you can relativise it in your own head, but why would you be compelled to articulate it? Leave people to feel how they feel

Perhaps the way to look at it depends on whether you are considering your own feelings or ranking other people's?

I want to suggest when you're looking at other people's difficulties perhaps a 'pain scale' approach would be kinder and more realistic. How is this experience compared to the most emotionally painful that individual has had.

For myself it does help to be grateful that my current experiences of loss and sadness are not as painful as other imaginable losses and previous ones I have actually experienced.

This really upsets me-like when they bring out the vicar who says this awful event has brought out the strength in the community or it’s wonderful to see people pulling together. There is no positive in people being murdered.

I think this nails it.
when we think in terms of “better” or “worse” or “harder” or “easier”, we’re thinking in a very limited way, like an economics way, on a scale, something linear.
And emotions are not like that.

Exactly

I think so but most people disagree. My dd died in traumatic circumstances a few years ago and people often like to compare my grief to losing grandparents or pets.

@anicecuppateaa I am so sorry.

well, I think they need to stop doing that. That was what I hope this thread will help with.