(Much) younger sibling

[Happiestwhen]

I am 18 years older than my sister. She is now 20. She has always been spoilt since she was a child and has a very selfish attitude to life. She's completely self- absorbed and thinks the world revolves around her. She has no regard for what anyone else wants or needs. She doesn't buy birthday cards or presents for anyone, not even her parents let alone myself and my dc. No Christmas presents, nothing. All along I've thought she'd grow out of it and learn some regard for others so I've always given her money in a card for birthday/Christmas. But this has been going on years and nothing is changing. Aibu to not gift her anything going forward? I feel as I'm older it's probably expected and my parents might feel I'm being petty. But she's earning her own money now and I feel she should start paying her own way. She gives nothing towards rent , food or bills either.

She's now classed as an adult so stop the gifts of money.

I too saved pocket money and bought a card for family.

What you've described is yes typical for most 20yo to 28yo even

No, it really, really isn't even remotely typical for adults in their 20s to behaving like this. I work with people this age, always have. And my nieces and nephews are this age. The vast majority of people in their 20s are normal, considerate adults and they certainly acknowledge the birthdays of their parents and siblings. My nieces and nephews are all (except for the youngest, who's 12) aged between 18 and 30 and every single one of them gets their parents, grandparents and siblings birthday cards/gifts.

The infantilising of older teens and adults on Mumsnet is insane sometimes.

39p fine, I thought we were talking about 'gifts', especially MN where nothing is good enough. But quite honestly, my grandmother would never have wanted me to buy her anything. Even as an adult she told me to save my money 😄 Maybe it's a culture thing as another poster has said.

just want to know AIBU to not gift her going forward now that she's an adult.

I reckon that's fair enough. Just a card is fine.

My DCs are 18 and 15. I don’t expect rent from the eldest (moving out for uni soon anyway) but a few years ago I started insisting they bought Christmas and birthday presents for my DH and I and their GPs even if they needed money from the other parent to do it. I think thinking about what other people might like helps in terms of seeing other people as individuals in their own right.

Before then they were expected to make a card.

I'd be more interested in whether she msgs you or makes an effort to show up to things/take an interest. Cards aren't a big thing for a lot of people - I think more so if younger? I have half sisters in their 50s that don't send cards or it's very sporadic. I don't think they are self absorbed or don't care- they just don't prioritise cards. Not worth getting upset over as it's not a big deal. You don't give to receive.
Just stop sending money if you like.
FWIW my younger sister was a 'baby' until about 25 but then grew out of it.

YANBU OP. Good grief! At 20 I was married and running a home. I’d been working for full time for five years. I also gave gifts to my friends and family from whatever age I could, if I didn’t have money I made them something, drew them a card, went round and mowed the lawn, whatever. And I don’t remember needing to be told to do so.

I'd continue to buy her a card for birthday and Christmas and I think it would be petty to stop doing this. I wouldn't put any money in it though.

One thing I would ask OP is does she acknowledge the gift and is she appreciative, because if not then stop with the gifts. But also probably stop anyway, as it doesn't seem you like her much or enjoy giving them

Unfortunately not, she's quite hostile towards myself and dcs , she cant tolerate them being loud or messy when we visit. They are very young. She has never offered to babysit or spend time with them etc. It seems like we are all an inconvenience to her unless we are supplying her with money or driving her around. She also dictates any plans we make for food etc.

Have you ever chatted to her about buying or making presents or cards for your parents as a thoughtful gift so they feel appreciated. I agree with you that the sentiment would be lovely. It comes naturally to lots of people but if it doesn’t to her, has any lone encouraged or suggested this even if just for your parents?

I’d wait until the next birthday of you or your DC and then say you’re disappointed that she isn’t apparently grownup enough to acknowledge other people’s birthdays. And then stop buying her anything. I’d send a card and leave it at that.

She's spoiled and entitled and it’s time she learns a lesson. It should be your parents who deliver it but if they’re not going to, I’d have no problem doing it myself.

I'd discuss it with your parents and explain how it makes you feel. See what their thoughts are

I think stopping gifts at 18 is fine if she's not getting you and your DC anything

Couldn't you have done something about this when she was younger? Eg taking her to a shop and saying "it's mum's birthday / mother's day / Christmas etc next week, what do you think she would like?" Would get her into the habit of thinking she should show appreciation in this way

You could do something similar now if you are actually interested in helping her learn a social skill she seems to have missed out on. Eg "I'm buying mum this necklace. Maybe you could get her the matching earrings"

She might not get the message and it may need repeating at several present-giving occasions but at least you'd be trying to help her rather than just complaining.

Not siblings, but as good as, cousins who I bought for until they were 21. I still exchange cards with one, possibly because she’s female and the males just don’t bother, although they’re great at getting their parents things, days out etc. I’d stop when she reaches 21. There’s no reason she can’t get at least a token for your dc, bit poor that she doesn’t.

This thread has been really eye opening for me. I'm shocked at how many parents are raising their children that they don't give/make cards or presents for relatives, their children only receive things, never give. Not even a home made or 39p card, they're taught to never even consider someone else's birthday or Christmas, only their own.

It is typical of a 20yo-28yo to not give cards and mark an occasion with a gift. They tend to mark occasions in a different way, mainly digital, such as valuing who is first to text them well wishes or acknowledge digital posts. As a similar age to OP, my friends and I do make cards and gifts with our kids. OP’s sister also had older parents who might not have shown her and guided her the way OP was. She will have seen less of her family and friends over pandemic period to learn these norms as well. What makes me despair about MN, is how people launch into a situation for tit for tat, without trying to understand other people, their difficulties and their experiences, values and expressions of care. This is a sister who OP says she very much wanted and doted on when she was small, she is still only 20yo and OP as the 38yo could approach this in a way which leaves the door open and facilitates a lovely relationship with her sister a decade or two later to last many years.

OP in your last post it’s clear it’s not actually about the gifts or the cards, it’s about her hostility towards you and your children and how she makes you feel insignificant and inconvenient. Cutting off presents and cards from you doesn’t address that and I don’t think it would make you happy either, as it’s so important to you. Her behaviour towards you and your kids isn’t acceptable and I can understand why you would be hurt by that. PP were saying you were resentful because there’s a lack of compassion and care in the way write about her, but from your last post we can see that comes from her first. I think it would be fair to tell her you don’t want to spend time with her until she is kinder and more patient, such as the food plans you say she dictates. It’s not fair on your kids. I’d keep up the cards and gifts because you’re showing your own kids what you’ve made clear is a very important mark of family occasions to you.

Me too! At her age my friends & I would have bought each other fairly expensive gifts for birthdays and Christmas (I'm not saying that this is the norm but even a card and a bottle of wine or something) Her friends seem to be just as selfish, all their money goes on themselves. It seems that the gift of giving is lost on the younger generation 😯

Bakeoffrewatch thank you , you have raised some really good points and maybe the lack of card- giving is just the tip of the iceberg. Deep down I probably feel resentful of us all giving her time, attention and handouts when we get nothing positive back in return.

Personally I’d give her a gift & card for her 21st as that’s a milestone birthday. Then I’d tell her going forward you’ll not be doing anything for her birthday as she’s an adult now.

Out of interest what is she like with gifts at Christmas? As if she’s the same with that I’d be inclined to stop that as well.

I'm shocked at the responses you're getting too OP. Your sister sounds very selfish. It isn't normal behaviour to ignore family birthdays and Christmas gifts.

The suggestion to buy her a gift for her 21st and then scale it right back is a good one. I wouldn't be going overboard with a gift though! A bottle of bubbly and a card is quite enough at this stage.

It's a shame that she's been allowed to sail through life with no consideration for other people. She's going to find life and relationships very difficult if she can only think of herself and never expect to pay her way/pay back in kind.

This! A lot of mumsnetters seem to view being in your 20s as some sort of extended adolescence which is worrying.

As I said though, I blame your parents for this, not your little sister, they raised her to never think of anyone except herself. I can't imagine never saying to my kids about doing something nice for someone on their birthday to make it special for them. And posters saying it's normal behaviour for 20 somethings, to only think of themselves, well, maybe for their kids it is (I wonder why ) not for mine. Plus, all that gift giving their kids missed out on when they were little. My kids loved making a card for their nan (or whomever) and then giving it to them and watching them open it. All a bit sad really.