Children on my front wall

[LighthouseTheme]

I have a small wall (2 feet high maybe) at the front edge of my garden. The garden itself is small anyway - three big slabs width from the porch/front door (with a set back area under the front window, and a gated path down the side of the house to the back). There is also a low gate that I had put on as the fact that the path slopes slightly and there is no barrier between my neighbours, meant that it was sometimes used for scooters. [I do feel a diagram might help...]

It has only been in this last year that I have done much to the front - as it is south facing and almost any plants will certainly die. But I now have some hardy-ish ones in planters, a wreath on the side gate and a pear tree and honeysuckle trying their best on the side wall and high fence to the other side.

This last year, a new neighbour's daughter decided that the wall is perfect to walk along and jump off (I think she is 10). As my car is on the road outside, I would quite often see her do this. Despite having been friendly towards them, she often walks past and, without her mother seeing, and without looking back, gives me the finger gesture. I added some plants on the inside of the wall at two spots, making it pointless to walk along the full length of the wall, but she still did it, stepping on the leaves of the plants.

Tonight, I could hear loud voices right outside, and when I looked, a group of (definitely pre-teen) girls were on the wall, all facing my house, dancing and jumping around. There was definitely a goading feel to it - but I only (I think) know them by sight. By the time I had got myself together to go and speak to them, they had gone.

A little while later, I had gone out to my car, and two of them (plus a little boy, I think a brother) came back, not seeing me at first and climbing straight onto the wall. So, in the conversation we had, it seems that I have to let them do it as they "are kids", they want to learn to balance, I am unfair and spoiling their lives and basically what do I know, they can do what they want... oh, and I'm a Karen.

So, apart from this moan, I am at a loss. The wall covers the length front of both my house and next door and so at my side, there are the plants in pots at either "end", and usually a bowl of water for dogs on the pavement side. But nothing for the half of the length outside next door.

My pathetic passive-aggressive attempts to prevent it are obviously not enough to stop them - and I fully expect to be ramped up now - or worse (I live in/close to a not-so-great area - and have been burgled and bullied and targeted in the past); sadly, the behaviour even at the start seemed very "goady" anyway, so I don't doubt I have already done something to warrant it.

Oh, what to do?
And I don't really think IABU but maybe I should let them just carry on.... (which I don't want to do)

If you put things on top they’ll be accidentally knocked off.
I’d go more subtle. A few more potted plants that are a bit more pokey- Cordyline has soft leaves. Something a bit more structured. Maybe a standard photinia or holly.

@LighthouseTheme poor behaviour from neighbours really does take a toll doesn't it and I can sense how much it does on you. One thing I'd add apart from the practical ideas PPs have had such as railings and planters, is what could you do to feel less bothered about these kids? A counsellor told me "You can't control what other people do, only how you react to them" (or something like that). What she suggested is finding ways to be less bothered about the crap behaviour. That can be anything from distraction techniques, to deciding not to look at them/not monitor the situation and do something far more pleasant instead. Easier said than done I realise.

So although I agree about railings and planters, the danger is if you do this now the kids know you'd made the changes to put them off and they just try something else to wind you up instead.

Could you try and ignore it for a few more weeks, until they've gone back to school, and see if things improve then? Or see how things are over the autumn/winter when the weather is worse and the days shorter? Then make the changes to the wall in the winter when they haven't had a reaction (even a look) from you for so long they think you're no longer bothered?

The thing is I suspect that every little adjustment you make to that wall to put them off will just make it more interesting and they are probably looking for a reaction, sounds as if their parents may be similar and unfortunately encouraging them?

It’s your wall and you should be able to tell
them get off and stay off but it may be better to de escalate by not reacting, get some temporary net curtains and I’d be pretty sure they’ll find someone else to bother after all it’s going to get boring for them at some point 😂

Sounds like pyracantha. Very pretty, with red green or yellow berries, evergreen and has spikes. It’s a good option and you can get espalier and trellis trained versions in lots. Just pop them in a long planter or in separate pots side by side. They will still grow into a hedge that overhangs the wall if you water them. You could even lift the paving slabs and plans them into the ground.

My brick wall is perfect sitting height but no one does because it has a top row of turret- type bricks (one side ways, one normal etc). Or get those mini railings or a shaped brick top edge or something

Ooh @CandidAquaBiscuit -- poor you, that sounds awful.
I'm sure things/places are getting worse and worse; your situation makes mine sound positively peaceful. It is horrid to have to move due to factors that you can't control, and that you don't bring on yourself. The Associations and Councils should be able to do something about anti-social behaviour, but I know from other experiences that I have had (and still do) that they either cannot, or will not and don't have the funds or resources anyway....
Good luck with moving x

@Genevieva Crikey - I've just looked up pyracantha ---- it's like the red weed from War of the Worlds!

Good thinking 😁

I agree with the rest of the comments about spiky plants, fence, something sticky etc, but what hasn't been pointed out is liability. Is this wall your property and on your boundary? I'm assuming it is. Well then what if one of those kids gets hurt? I can see the parents claiming you are liable.

@CandidaAlbicans2 You are right (but it has been pointed out...), and as a one time H&S Warden for a 7 million pound 4-storey building (including a Pilot Plant and 50 employees), I have always had one eye on dangers and potential hazards.

I know how easy it is to tear ligaments and break bones even falling off high heels. This wall and their antics are a recipe for an accident to happen, and I feel sure that their parents would come after me, for one reason another, should anything bad happen. (Whilst at the same time, endorsing the kids' actions - as in, "They can do what they want".)

So in one sense, I am covering myself by asking them not to do what they are doing - and of course, making it difficult for them to play on it at all with planting and fencing. Again, nothing sticky, spiky or generally unpleasant, as 1) there is a two-year-old next door, who also does not understand boundaries, 2) it is my garden/frontage, and I have to take care of it and see it.

I'd check your house insurance so if they do fall off and get hurt you may well be covered. I'm not an expert but I think they would have to prove you negligent.

Get one of those mosquito sound things they have in shopping centres. So high pitched most grown ups can’t hear them, but teens and younger can. But also stop rising to it; the more they know it annoys you, the more they’ll do it.

Well, I did do a bit of a U-turn on my thinking last night.

As I said, it is more than walking on the wall; I only caught about 20 seconds of video* (without being seen myself...) the other day, but it was crazy dancing, shouting, bad twerking, sitting astride, and messing with the gravel. They did it for longer, but did not know I saw them.
I had only looked out and then seen them on the wall when I heard the voices (you can see how close it is to the house, and the sound carries) because I thought it was my "easily-upset" neighbour on the other side. She is often outside, just to create drama and get attention (and has probably played a part in these children thinking they can do this - as she is a massive stirrer.... ) The most they saw was me look through the blinds at first, which resulted in the stupid, provocative antics - which they would have done again, had I not been in the car when they came back. and as a result it became a conversation rather than another performance.

But now - whilst still continuing my garden improvements and plant deterrents, I sort of imagine them out there shouting and squawking and showing off to a house that is, or appears to be, empty.

So yes , I have tried to change my feelings about it already. Lovely Mumsnetters have helped me do that I think.

*I'm not too keen on videoing and would never do it blatantly... it was just to show my friend how awful (and, to a point, intimidating) it had been. I know there must be rules about videoing children, so it makes me uncomfortable - but then, a camera set up would be acceptable? I'm not sure.

Just finally, an example of the other neighbour's behaviour: she detests and provokes and causes hassle for her neighbour above. The bin for the upstairs apartment was outside the gate for collection, but in a place that she deemed in her way. So she kicked it over (easily - it only has - ugh - dog poop in it) and right into the side of my car.
(I was friendly and helpful to her until recently., but this is her typical approach to getting people to take notice of her.)

They will be fed up.
They think it's funny that you come out.
Try to ignore them.
Hopefully it will stop.

Unfortunately you’ve created a stage in your front garden.

im torn because on the one hand i have toddlers who love this kind of thing and i have been known to let them climbing in neighbours wall whilst saying ‘well its someone’s garden so we shouldn’t really’ but not able to face the battle of stopping them u less the wall looks precarious and not safe either for the wall or child.

that said this child giving you the finger is not ok and should be address with the mum. But ultimately does the kids dancing in the wall do any harm? If you’re not ok with it (totally your prerogative) then you can either decide to spend money and do something nice with your front wall eg trellises or railings. Or you can go down my neighbours route and cement broken bottles to the top

I didn't come out though....

I looked out of the window the one time they noticed - so, for some reason known only unto them - they ramped up what they were doing. Bolstered by what I call the Power of the Plural, and with some prior input form the other neighbour I would say,.

My car is parked on the road (sadly), and I was in it when they returned. I didn't even see them coming as I had the sunshade on the windscreen. The mouthiest had already climbed on the wall at the neighbour's end, and froze to the spot when I opened my car door,. But she did not remain intimidated by my being there - if she ever was. The worst of all of them didn't come back that time. Bu I have no doubt that she will.

I now have both a mental and practical strategy. Don't know if it will work though.

I don't think there are any special rules that prohibit videoing children in public.

@KarmenPQZ

The stage aspect of it is totally unintentional, and the wall was built when the house was; maybe I should have decorated/planted before now.

They aren't toddlers, who are being assisted by Mum though - the oldest of these is probably about to be going to Secondary School, and the younger two are probably 7..

The one who gave me the finger is separate altogether (but probably knows them), and lives next door but one. But she too has been influenced by the trouble-maker neighbour in between and is and has been terribly rude to her, and me by extension, even though only this time last year, I was teaching her how to grow tomatoes, giving them blackberries, crocheted a blanket for her doll and played the piano tunes that she requested (as they could her my practice when the door was open). Now, I am getting the finger, the intentional walking on the wall, when she knows I don't like it. (Even if I didn't mind, the finger would have cancelled that out.) And as her mother and the upstairs neighbour and her child have now formed a convenient family unit, the Power of the Plural applies there as well.

There is one source of most of this trouble, and she lives next door, and I assisted her enormously thorough two pregnancies, a lot of drama, mental health episodes, Police visits and all the general trouble she by and large brings on herself. I was hauled over the coals for it here on MN, as it was seen as interfering and trying to be a saint. Having finally had enough and backing off from her gradually and then pretty brutally, in recent months, she is now causing trouble for me by devious means, and using children to do her dirty work.,

Where she lived before, there was petition created to get her moved. It worked, and she came here. I am not blaming her entirely, as I can quite easily it seems, make enemies all by myself. And as I said at the start, this place is one where people are usually related, or went to school together. Insular would be a kind way to put it.

From my bedroom window doesn't feel public, or quite right though....

A while ago, I was trying to get a picture of a roof problem on the porch, and was on the pavement with my phone. A woman and her two girls walked past - between me and the house - and so I laughed and said I would avoid getting them in the picture. She gave me a look that was utterly withering and, even though I see them a LOT, will never speak to me, and turns her head away.
That was my first time seeing them back then, and has made me feel odd about taking photos outside, despite my next door having cameras (not connected I don't think) front and back, and at least two over the road, having Ring doorbells.

Also, when I came here, I would stick my phone over the fence (6 feet I think) to see if my friend's car had come back.

The Police turned up at my door; I had been accused of "taking photographs of children".

Kind of wary now.
Although I do wish I could post the video I took of them on the wall....
Now I am calmer (for now), I am seeing their behaviour as pathetic.
That will probably not last.

@KarmenPQZ

I would ideally like to have remote sentry guns (set up as paintball though, no bullets) like they have in Aliens.... (apologies if that's not a film you know or are interested in; I am an Alien fan from Day One).
Even that though, would [pardon the pun] backfire, as my car is the other side of the wall.
I do also have a bow and arrows, and am a good shot - not that that would matter as they are so close.

But for now, softly softly approach is my preference.

I was going to suggest the same, as was contemplating getting one myself, but I was a bit gobsmacked at the price...

When you are surrounded by angst and melodrama, you really can't lose by being the one to dial down the drama yourself.

You sound like a kind person who would help anyone who needed you. People like that are often very sensitive to how others behave because they have spent a lifetime looking out for other people.

Sounds as if this neighbourhood bother has nothing to do with you, so I agree that detaching yourself and stepping back is best for you and won't harm them.

@Oftenaddled

Yes, I think so too - it has taken my a lifetime to learn, or be able to do it though (and have had quite a bit of "angst" of my own ----my father uses that as a derisory term, hence the " "); nowadays I take a bit of pride in being able to NOT get upset by things to the same extent that I once would have - even though yes, the wall and the other dramas DO bother me.

My over-dramatic and needy neighbour has at least helped me to be able to do that. But the backing off from her (very difficult due to proximity) is helping me to keep my own head clear - but she is sneakily making me pay for not being her (one of many many, but the most convenient due to location) person to offload onto, with the upset of the day.

And thank you for your kind words 🤗

@GeilistheWitch

Hm, considering I would resent even the £20 that some new trellis is going to cost (I already have some), and the paint/time it will take, due to the ignorance of some bratty children, I am not going to spend £500 on deterring them.

I don't think there are any special rules that prohibit videoing children in public.

Correct. UK law is that there's no expectation of privacy in public. A lot of people seem to be under the illusion that filming/photographing minors isn't legal but there is no such law.