It’s becoming unfashionable to have kids

[Housebuyingfamily]

Birth rates are on the floor which people frame as, people would have more kids were it not for the cost of them or climate change, etc etc. But I feel like it’s now more than this. As if we have a global child-free culture that’s growing every day and it’s becoming increasingly “unfashionable” to have kids, even looked down upon.

Do you have to have a house in a desirable area before having children? This is a genuine question btw as it relates the 'standard setting' I mentioned in my own post- the idea that it's wrong or bad or foolish to have children until you've met certain criteria.

Equally, women have utilised contraceptive and abortive measures (with varying degrees of success) for as long as we’ve been giving birth. Infanticide also used to be common, and still is in some countries where access to contraception and abortion is limited.

To answer the original question, I don't think it's unfashionable to have kids, I think there's a certain morality that's popular at the moment around making good and responsible choices that makes people feel that having children is a bad choice.

There is a sneering attitude towards children ('crotch goblins') and their parents ('breeders') amongst some hipster types and other trendy arseholes.

I agree, but hormonal contraception is a relatively new thing. It stops you getting pregnant but it also alters your entire hormonal makeup on a daily basis, which must have some impact on people's thinking and behaviour, surely?

I’ve never been on any hormonal contraception - only condoms - and never had any sort of urge or desire for children 🤷‍♀️ In my 30s now

There are many reasons the younger generations aren't having children.

And thank god these women now see there is a very clear choice. And that there is nothing wrong in deciding not to have children! If more women considered their choices, there would be less unhappy mothers and kids out there.

And parenting styles these days is 100% a factor. It's that my niece has cited as the reason that she has chosen not to have children. She doesn't want to fight the battle of attempting to raise a child in a world of gentle (non) parenting.

I've come across this. IME it's often expressed by people who would dearly love to have children but who for various reasons think that option isn't open to them/isn't right for them. They use the sneery attitude as a defence mechanism. Rather than annoying me, I find this attitude really sad.

I'm not sure. You made the conscious choice not to have kids...not sure what criteria you based that choice on but fair enough if it suited you. Sensible decision for you I'm sure. But from a biological point of view, our desire to care and nurture is so we procreate and create more of our own species. We may have pushed that desire onto pets because it's easier for us, but I'm pretty sure nature didn't give us these instincts so we could care for a totally different species.

Interesting. So maybe the basic desire has to be there first and then the hormone push the final decision? I can't describe the desire I had, it was like a madness ('baby fever'). I still get it from time to time now and I'm over 40 and definitely never having another baby!

In that it’s given people the freedom to choose, rather than resign themselves to biological inevitability and/or dangerous methods of preventing birth, yes. That women had a lot of children prior to contraception being available doesn’t mean they wanted a lot of children, or wouldn’t have chosen differently if they had the option to.

Beyond that, perhaps, perhaps not. I can say it hasn’t had an impact on mine, because I’ve never used hormonal contraception beyond the couple of weeks it took me to realise I responded badly to it.

I love cats and want to look after them. I grew up with cats. I do not have an urge to look after dogs or rabbits or birds. I absolutely loathe the idea of looking after children. I don't have an urge to look after any humans. I spent seven years as my mother's carer and am very glad that's over. Having friends is one thing, nurturing anyone other than my preferred species another.

You responded badly to it. There must be millions who respond fine (as in, they have no obvious problems) but who have other responses that are not immediately obvious, around how they feel or think. It's not necessarily a bad thing, it's just interesting that it's a question that doesn't seem to be asked very much.

From a biological point of view, I’ve never experienced desire for children, not even when briefly pregnant.

Nature doesn’t have intent, it just is. It’s also incredibly complex, with ann incredibly complex interplay between environment and biology. There’s also a huge variation in how individuals express their own natures. It isn’t as simple as ‘everyone has the urge to procreate’ - demonstrably, we don’t.

And actually, all members of a species procreating is actually detrimental to that species.

Biologically a direct desire for children isn't really necessary as in the 'natural' run of things (as in, without contraception) all that's needed is fertility and a desire for piv sex. Children are a consequence. With contraception that whole mechanism is changed and you have to consciously choose to have children.

The desire to not have children, and rid yourself of unwanted pregnancy is also natural and a consequence of sex and conception. If it wasn’t, then it quite simply wouldn’t be something we did. All methods of preventing and ending unwanted pregnancy are born from our natural desires to do so. We’ve just got better at it.

I agree. I'm not sure exactly what point you're making.

BTW I never said anything about a 'natural' desire to have children.

Exactly. Other animals do not experience a conscious desire for offspring, they are simply programmed to behave in a way that brings them about. Humans have developed reliable means of having sex which does not result in offspring, therefore choosing g to have a child is a conscious choice.

That the freedom to choose, in a way that respects individual choice, and by expressing that choice in ways that aren’t likely to kill you, is a good thing. People shouldn’t have children they don’t want, yet they did because they had little opportunity not to.

The idea that people ‘are paralysed by choice’ implicitly presents this state of affairs as somehow preferable in comparison. It isn’t.

I really don't understand why people can't grasp the concept that people choose to have dogs not as child substitute but because they love dogs?

Growing up we've always had dogs, I'm from a massive family, loads of siblings, aunts/uncles and cousins just about every single household in my family has always had at least one dog. It's all I've known so me having a dog is absolutely nothing to do with me choosing not to have kids. I've known since I was a child that I didn't want children and I'm now mid 30's and still have absolutely no desire or urge to ever have a child.

I look at a newborn baby and feel indifferent I can appreciate if one is cute but I just don't feel anything, I never wonder what my potential child could look like or what my life could be like if I had one. I look at a puppy or any animal to be honest and feel the total opposite. I see a pup/cute animal and I melt.
It's probably hard for people that don't feel like me to understand just like I don't understand people who have these "urges" to have children.

Wanting to nurture an animal is not the same as nurturing a kid for me. I LOVE looking after my dog, I could spend every minute of the rest of my life with her and never get bored or want/need a break. I have all the time, and patience in the world for animals and I'd do absolutely anything for my pet because she brings me so much joy. I just don't feel the same way about children and never have. The only awful thing about owning a dog for me is the fact that we don't get to keep them forever.

I absolutely adore my dog but she's not my Fur Baby (a term I detest) she's my dog and I know I might think she's the best thing since sliced bread but I understand that's not the same for other people which is why I raised her to not approach others when out and about and I don't take her to cafes and restaurants.

I found this interesting:
Is the Planet Running Out of People? with Paul Morland. pdst.fm/e/chrt.fm/track/C35921/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.megaphone.fm/NSR1127486655.mp3?updated=1724083194 .
The author and broadcaster Paul Morland is one of the UK’s leading thinkers on demographics – the study of population and its characteristics. Morland has been an associate research fellow at Birkbeck, University of London, and is a senior member at St Antony's College, Oxford. He last joined Intelligence Squared in 2022 and now returns to discuss his new book, No One Left. As that title suggests, Morland says the world is facing something of a crisis, with various nations facing population decline which could lead to consequences that range from labour shortages to ballooning debt. Joining him to discuss the issue is Eir Nolsøe, senior economics reporter at the Telegraph.

I absolutely adore my dog but she's not my Fur Baby (a term I detest) she's my dog and I know I might think she's the best thing since sliced bread but I understand that's not the same for other people which is why I raised her to not approach others when out and about and I don't take her to cafes and restaurants
@BeansOnToast32
Your dog is not your fur baby, yet you still speak about your dog in terms normally reserved for children. You say 'I raised her' rather than 'I trained her'.

Running out of people? Saw this on FB today