Can’t just be me who is sick of the moaning about the private school VAT and winter fuel payments

[TruthorDie]

The moaning about them seems to be never ending. So tone death and indulgent on both counts. Not sure which is worse. A friends mum was ranting on social media earlier about winter fuel payments being stopped and how “worried about being cold” she was. Bad news is Lynn you haven’t needed to work since 1989, married to an oil exec and have had lots of the good life. I’m sure all of your Florida holidays keep you warm enough!

Bright children can get on anywhere, my siblings and l went to a comprehensive. We all have a couple of degrees, one of us has a PhD so it didn’t hold us back too much in life. Before anyone comes at it from the neurodiversity angle then l am and l wouldn’t be surprised if my younger sibling isn’t

Hopefully it will be spread out to include millionaires with their funds nicely tucked away in the post Brexit legal offshore tax havens (spoiler alert - it wont)

And so they should, if they are means testing fuel.

The DWP can already access bank accounts.

They don't need a bunch of forms, they can just access bank accounts and come up with an amount of savings that would exclude people from claiming. They already do for other benefits.

Are pensioners getting those things by losing their winter fuel allowance?

Do you really believe any of those thing as will happen?

Potholes and playgrounds are local council competencies. You need to petition locally.

One example of macro government competency is education (my area of expertise). There is a lot of like to change about 11-16 education. I’d also like to get rid of Multi academy trusts and give schools the autonomy promised 14 years ago, but none of what Labour are saying is on the mark and they risk undoing a lot of good work.

According to international data from PISA testing etc, English schools are now among the best performing in the world. Primary school children are the most proficient readers in the western world; 15-year-olds in English schools are 11th in the world in maths (up from 27th in 2009); 13th in science (up from 16th); and 13th in reading (up from 25th).

I’m not aware of special tax breaks for anyone in the U.K. except Kier Starmer, whose personal pension is so generous and exempt from all other clawbacks that impact the rest of us that it has its own Act of Parliament. Just for him. It’s quite something.

Are you seriously suggesting that without the Labour Party (allegedly) 'seeking to divide people along demographic lines' there were no such divisions? That somehow people had failed to notice the huge disparity between their own quality of life, opportunities and advantages compared with people from other demographics? Because of so, you're confusing acknowledgement of an issue with the creation of one.
What you're seeing here is a predictable flurry of anxiety amongst individuals who compared to others, did very nicely under the former administration, and now fear the new one might start prioritising the interests of other demographics over their own.
Its not a new divide created by Labour, its just a belated willingness to acknowledge and condemn it by people who fear it may work less in their own interests now.

Health, education, social services etc will not be fixed. The issues are systemic, and tax/spend without addressing the underlying issues will achieve little to nothing.

Can’t she move in with you or another relative? Is this not the solution?

The problem is a lot of people 40-odd years ago put nothing by for their retirement as there weren’t the auto enrolment schemes we have these days and live expectancy wasn’t much beyond retirement age. Now the elderly are living much longer, and although working people are putting much more by for retirement there are many living pensioners living an unexpectedly long life off not a lot.

If either of my parents were struggling to heat their home I’d house them myself. It’s hard to expect the state to provide enough money to house, heat and feed elderly people who have no alternative income or savings. I would rather that money was put by for those who need long term care.

What you're seeing here is a predictable flurry of anxiety amongst individuals who compared to others, did very nicely under the former administration, and now fear the new one might start prioritising the interests of other demographics over their own

That's a very naive way of looking at it.

Which demographics do you mean, exactly? The train drivers? The junior doctors?

If either of my parents were struggling to heat their home I’d house them myself

Of course you would.

Nope. DWP can only access bank accounts currently if they suspect fraud.

The Data Protection and Digital Information Bill introduced by the Tories intended to widen those powers in the way you suggest. That bill fell because it was not completed by the end of the ‘wash-up’ before the GE.

‘Potholes and playgrounds are local council competencies. You need to petition locally.’

thanks for the top fucking tip. There’s NO money. Get it? Although, I guess the Tories did manage to find cash to bail out bankers, give Rwanda a couple of hundred mill, and give charity breaks to private schools… so maybe our new government can have a look around and see what they can do.

Can I ask - who do you believe did very nicely under the previous administration?

Your words.

Please advise.

I'd be interested to hear that too.

Do you only know rich pensioners?

I know several who are just above the pension credit level thanks to putting a bit by for their old age who are seriously worried about how they are going to pay their bills this winter.

I'm also wondering how much paying benefits to all the ancillary staff at closing private schools is going to cost. They are huge employers and the state system isn't going to offer them replacement jobs.

Economics is not Labours strong suit.

I've heard many of my aquaintences with kids in private education moaning about it, moaning about affordability - yet none of them are removing their children and 3 of them are planning for their younger kids to start next year and buying!

My friends and I who are all public sector just laugh at how we clearly don't "just work hard enough" to have to worry about paying for private education!

For those I know who are entitled to winter fuel then no one cares. My dad laughed last year when he got the payment as hadn't even realised he be entitled 😂 (probably more likely forgot).

The only person I know this bracket who is said they'd just £20 a month extra on their current DD and that'll cover it - because they've already got good credit after it being a milder winter last year.

MN seems to be the biggest place of discontent over private school VAT. I can't help but laugh at their indignation - the levels of whataboutery and looking for reasons to diss Labour over it are actually quite impressive 😂

The rich, which it's assumed includes pensioners because they're all boomers having a lovely time and a just a drain on society anyway..

But this includes people like my Dad from a mining background (and worked down the pits for several years before he relocated before the 80s strikes) and worked in other jobs for decades and in the north where he benefitted from low housing costs and was able to buy with my Step-Mum.

And owns a house outright, has 100k savings in the bank and gets a reduced pension as he claims carers allowance for my Step-Mum who gets high rate PIP for both components as she has several conditions which will likely end her life in the next few years.

Do they need the winter fuel allowance? nope. Do they need PIP? nope .Do they need their pensions? nope. But they were both public sector workers for decades, paid NI and tax and in the scheme of things, aren't among 'the rich' of society.

Should they expect to benefit from what they put into society and take something out? maybe.

Personally, I don't think they should get the winter fuel allowance or be eligible for PIP as I think it should be means-tested but they were working-class workers for decades and saved instead of having bigger homes, cars, holidays etc.

They weren't living the high-life all their lives, as is the widespread assumption, particularly on MN about pensioners.

I think they might have the right to be pissed off that their benefits are being cut, the ones they didn't claim till they were pensioners.

And like I said upthread, my views on PIP apply to everyone and many MNetters will melt down at the suggestion of means testing.

I think the A level results have been so much better from private school this year that people will just suck up the 20%. Around where I live anyway it's definitely an investment.

I’ve not heard anyone saying it’s about working or not working hard enough. Different careers have different pay profiles. I could have become a lawyer and earned enough to pay for private schooling. I could have worked in a private school that offered a fee discount. I, selfishly perhaps, found I really enjoyed working with vulnerable teenagers with complex mental health and SEN profiles. I work in a school my children are not eligible to attend and I earn a salary insufficient to pay school fees. It’s my choice. I don’t begrudge others their choices and I do understand that a sudden change in financial circumstances is painful, so there are thousands of stressed parents at the moment.

There are comprehensives and comprehensives.
Some absolutely fail their students.

Yes. I only know rich pensioners. It’s my echo chamber. I know a hedge fund manager who got his winter fuel allowance. He tried to get HMRC to take it back and they wouldn’t. I know loads and loads of pensioners on much less only ‘scraping by’ on £20k a year private pension, £25k a year income from BTL property and state pension on top for instance. No mortgage to pay. That’s my parents and their friends. Holiday every other month. I don’t begrudge them, but - and the IFS will back this up - they are the demographic group with the highest amount of disposable income on average. And don’t need any more free income.

Maybe the means testing needs to be readjusted, but this free money needs to be taken off rich pensioners and spent elsewhere.

I went to a comprehensive and it was absolutely shit. Ds did year 7 and 8 at our local good comp. It was like a prison, the whole system arranged around managing terrible behaviour. He left and went to private school and has done extremely well. To be fair the 6th form of the comp is supposed to be pretty good, but the depressing slog of year 7-11 wasn't worth it.

Do bear in mind that they will have paid a colossal amount of tax.

Hell yeh! There are schools where a very bright child gets beaten up every day and the school do nothing about it, and the child is so traumatised panic attacks stop them attending. No ‘bright child’ survives that! Which is why we chose private school.

It would have been nice if they had sorted out the truly horrific schools prior to slamming on theVAT but the politics of envy mob were demanding to be sated. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t mind the VAT. I really mind the middle classes with the perfect grammar school who close their eyes and ears to the fact that some only have a dire state school offering.

I got all As in my A-levels and I went to a bog standard comprehensive. Once you've got a degree, nobody cares what you got in your A-levels.

I've also worked in universities and academic staff are usually well aware that a student with straight As from a state school will usually be a lot better that a student with straight As from a private school.