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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Witholding my rent AIBU

831 replies

littledragon99 · 15/08/2024 13:29

I'm a woman in my late 40s, living in a 3-bed Victorian terrace in West London, where I pay £1,200 a month with all bills included. I signed an AST in May.
I work in recruitment and DJ on the side. Despite being skilled in my job, financial difficulties have arisen following my mother’s death, and I've struggled with timely rent payments. I’m currently in therapy to manage my depression.
Recently, my landlady has begun Airbnb-ing the living room, removing the communal space I was paying for. Given this change, I believe the £1,200 rent is no longer justified.
Additionally, she inappropriately contacted my boss, (my boss was my reference) about paying rent directly and has threatened eviction. I’ve consulted Citizens Advice and suspect my deposit wasn’t placed in a Tenancy Deposit Scheme (TDS), which may breach legal requirements.
Due to these issues, I’ve withheld my rent since August 1st and am prepared to take further action if needed.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
Starlight1979 · 15/08/2024 15:47

WhereYouLeftIt · 15/08/2024 15:39

With the greatest respect @littledragon99 - for a woman in her late 40s you need to grow the fuck up.

You have to be reminded to pay your rent - because you have ADHD? No, you don't have to be reminded, you have to take responsibility and set up reminders to yourself on your phone, or better still, set up a standing order so that your rent is paid IN FULL AND ON TIME. How have you reached this age and not developed strategies to work with it?

You are not a good tenant. Your first month's rent was late, your second month's rent wasn't paid until it was over a month late because it was paid with your third month's rent which was also late. You admit that you have paid your rent late "every single month if i'm honest". Geez!

"She said since "I have never paid my rent on time" she needs the guarenteed airbnb income from airbnb'ing out the lounge, but this is just making my anxiety levels through the roof"
Well we know she's right, you have never paid your rent on time. You said so yourself. And the lounge was never part of your tenancy agreement, you rent your room only. And, you don't even use the lounge - you stated "when i'm at home i just collapse, i barely leave my room tbhi". The lounge is a total red herring, you're just scrabbling around for a way to not suffer the consequences of your actions.

Remember your OP? Justifying your withholding / deliberately not paying your rent? Let's look at it again.
"Recently, my landlady has begun Airbnb-ing the living room, removing the communal space I was paying for. Given this change, I believe the £1,200 rent is no longer justified."
You were NOT paying for the communal space. Your landlady kindly allowed the room to be used as communal space, but you rent only your room. You have ZERO justification to not pay your rent.

Stop claiming that anxiety / depression / ADHD make you pay your rent late. Accept that you are making your landlady's anxiety levels go through the roof. Just stop trying to weasel your way out of the shit you have caused yourself. Adult up.

All of this.

TeenagersAngst · 15/08/2024 15:49

littledragon99 · 15/08/2024 14:30

It says this:

I signed the contract on 10/3/24, so 5 months ago, 6 months in September

EXPIRY OF THE TENANCY
At the end of the fixed term granted by this Tenancy, the Tenant shall return the Property and the Contents to the Landlord in the condition
required by this agreement
If the Landlord allows the Tenant to remain in the Property after the Term has expired then a statutory periodic tenancy shall arise on a monthly
basis. To end the periodic tenancy, the Tenant shall give the Landlord at least one month’s notice in writing. The notice must end on the day before
the rent is due
The Landlord has the right to recover possession of the Property if:
(a) the Tenancy has come to an end;
(b) the Landlord has given two months’ notice to the Tenant of the Landlord’s intention to recover possession of the Property; and
(c) at least six months have passed since the date of this agreement

Edited

The wording in this section is odd and slightly misleading suggesting that it's up to the LL if the tenant stays beyond the fixed term.

The tenant is under no obligation to return the house to the LL at the end of the fixed term - only a court or a tenant can end a tenancy.

Currently, with S21, it is much easier for LLs to evict tenants outside of the fixed period but once that is gone, this AST would not hold water. They would have to evict on an allowable ground, such as rent arrears.

That is why withholding rent is NEVER a good idea because it will always give the LL power over the tenant.

OhmygodDont · 15/08/2024 15:50

We don’t know that the deposit isn’t currently protected or that op didn’t get the info. Most of the time now it comes via email and frankly someone who cannot remember to pay rent a bloody important thing I doubt remembers every email they received or checks their spam 😅

Bigcat25 · 15/08/2024 15:51

mummymeister · 15/08/2024 15:28

She cannot "airbnb" the living room for more than 90 days in London. Report her to the council on this.

That just makes the relationship between op and ll even worse. She doesn't need to give her more ammo evict her.

Malbecfan · 15/08/2024 15:57

OP, given your struggles and ADHD, I am going to try to be constructive.

Firstly, you need to speak to Shelter. They are very busy so make sure you have as much relevant information to hand as possible.

Secondly, check all the tenancy deposit schemes to see whether or not your deposit has been protected. Yes, the landlord should have sent you the prescribed information, but let's not worry about that now. Someone linked that higher up this thread.

Thirdly, set up either an alert on your phone or, better still, a standing order to pay your rent monthly. That will save you from having to worry.

Fourthly, calculate how much money you should have paid for this current rental period and how much you have actually paid. You need to keep arrears down below 2 months to avoid a section 8 automatic eviction. Can you make sure that you don't owe anything by the end of this month?

You should have an up to date Gas Safety Certificate and Energy one (EPC?). Have you been sent those? If not, post here.

When you have done those 5, contact the housing department at your local council about whether or not you are living in a HMO. Maybe I misread your posts but it sounds like you might be. Rules for HMOs are stricter than normal ASTs.

Whilst withholding rent seems like the obvious thing to do, there is a very specific way of doing it. I don't think you are doing it correctly. Finally, this is not the best forum for housing advice. MoneySavingExpert's forum tends to be less judgmental and more constructive.

GoodLordyTheExcusesWeMakeForThem · 15/08/2024 15:58

WhereYouLeftIt · 15/08/2024 15:39

With the greatest respect @littledragon99 - for a woman in her late 40s you need to grow the fuck up.

You have to be reminded to pay your rent - because you have ADHD? No, you don't have to be reminded, you have to take responsibility and set up reminders to yourself on your phone, or better still, set up a standing order so that your rent is paid IN FULL AND ON TIME. How have you reached this age and not developed strategies to work with it?

You are not a good tenant. Your first month's rent was late, your second month's rent wasn't paid until it was over a month late because it was paid with your third month's rent which was also late. You admit that you have paid your rent late "every single month if i'm honest". Geez!

"She said since "I have never paid my rent on time" she needs the guarenteed airbnb income from airbnb'ing out the lounge, but this is just making my anxiety levels through the roof"
Well we know she's right, you have never paid your rent on time. You said so yourself. And the lounge was never part of your tenancy agreement, you rent your room only. And, you don't even use the lounge - you stated "when i'm at home i just collapse, i barely leave my room tbhi". The lounge is a total red herring, you're just scrabbling around for a way to not suffer the consequences of your actions.

Remember your OP? Justifying your withholding / deliberately not paying your rent? Let's look at it again.
"Recently, my landlady has begun Airbnb-ing the living room, removing the communal space I was paying for. Given this change, I believe the £1,200 rent is no longer justified."
You were NOT paying for the communal space. Your landlady kindly allowed the room to be used as communal space, but you rent only your room. You have ZERO justification to not pay your rent.

Stop claiming that anxiety / depression / ADHD make you pay your rent late. Accept that you are making your landlady's anxiety levels go through the roof. Just stop trying to weasel your way out of the shit you have caused yourself. Adult up.

Wow who pissed in your porridge today? Got a tenant giving you trouble? Sometimes it can be quite fun to drop the tenancy delosit protection scheme bombshell on LL’s when they threaten eviction and watch the colour drain from their face as they realise you can take them for an absolute fortune if they continue to threaten your home and your entitlement to peaceful enjoyment of it. If they want to be LL’s then they have a responsibility to be good ones and know the legislation. Ignorance of the legislation is not an excuse and will cost them dearly. Of course the op SHOULD pay her rent on time. However references wont be too much of an issue since the LL is unlikely to be able to grt an eviction order without paying back her deposit in full and a damn site more in compensation allowing the op to pay a huge amount of rent upfront. Most LL’s will forgo references when faced with a year or more in rent paid upfront.

StickItInTheFamilyAlbum · 15/08/2024 15:58

OhmygodDont · 15/08/2024 15:50

We don’t know that the deposit isn’t currently protected or that op didn’t get the info. Most of the time now it comes via email and frankly someone who cannot remember to pay rent a bloody important thing I doubt remembers every email they received or checks their spam 😅

As per the Shelter links, it seems remarkably easy to check online if the deposit is in one of the approved schemes.

BrightLightTonight · 15/08/2024 16:00

littledragon99 · 15/08/2024 13:58

I have ADHD and often need to be reminded

Why don’t you have a standing order set up - then your rent would arrive on time and you won’t need reminding

GoodLordyTheExcusesWeMakeForThem · 15/08/2024 16:00

Malbecfan · 15/08/2024 15:57

OP, given your struggles and ADHD, I am going to try to be constructive.

Firstly, you need to speak to Shelter. They are very busy so make sure you have as much relevant information to hand as possible.

Secondly, check all the tenancy deposit schemes to see whether or not your deposit has been protected. Yes, the landlord should have sent you the prescribed information, but let's not worry about that now. Someone linked that higher up this thread.

Thirdly, set up either an alert on your phone or, better still, a standing order to pay your rent monthly. That will save you from having to worry.

Fourthly, calculate how much money you should have paid for this current rental period and how much you have actually paid. You need to keep arrears down below 2 months to avoid a section 8 automatic eviction. Can you make sure that you don't owe anything by the end of this month?

You should have an up to date Gas Safety Certificate and Energy one (EPC?). Have you been sent those? If not, post here.

When you have done those 5, contact the housing department at your local council about whether or not you are living in a HMO. Maybe I misread your posts but it sounds like you might be. Rules for HMOs are stricter than normal ASTs.

Whilst withholding rent seems like the obvious thing to do, there is a very specific way of doing it. I don't think you are doing it correctly. Finally, this is not the best forum for housing advice. MoneySavingExpert's forum tends to be less judgmental and more constructive.

Amazing advice and clearly laid out in a way that my own AuADHD brain didn't allow me to, thank you!

housethatbuiltme · 15/08/2024 16:01

GoodLordyTheExcusesWeMakeForThem · 15/08/2024 15:46

Im sorry but is your point here that you have sen and so because you can do it the op is just using her condition to make excuses? Hmmm. A bit like, i have a stress fracture of my ankle and i can still walk so you’re just using your compound fracture of the ankle as an excuse not to walk. They’re both broken bones after all. What a dilly argument to have made.

My point is a direct debit literally does it for you. There's no excuse not to have one set up when you move in so you do not have to do anything.

All OP has done is made excuses and none of them excuse her from the very real face she is not paying rent on time and now doesn't want to pay at all... she is not a victim but is desperate to make herself one.

LondonFox · 15/08/2024 16:01

CaptainBolt · 15/08/2024 13:46

Maybe the landlord could get a job to pay his/her own bills.

Landlords have a job!
Renting out a place so they can pay their own bills.
It is not such difficult concept ffs.

Or maybe bakers should also get a job and provide you with free bread?

GoodLordyTheExcusesWeMakeForThem · 15/08/2024 16:06

TeenagersAngst · 15/08/2024 15:49

The wording in this section is odd and slightly misleading suggesting that it's up to the LL if the tenant stays beyond the fixed term.

The tenant is under no obligation to return the house to the LL at the end of the fixed term - only a court or a tenant can end a tenancy.

Currently, with S21, it is much easier for LLs to evict tenants outside of the fixed period but once that is gone, this AST would not hold water. They would have to evict on an allowable ground, such as rent arrears.

That is why withholding rent is NEVER a good idea because it will always give the LL power over the tenant.

It could be like my two rentals where the LL issued the section 21 as a standard practice to come into effect at the 6 month end date for the ast, then they could end it at that date if they chose to action it and if not then it became a statutory periodic tenancy. My section 21’s were actually post dated and handed to me with the tenancy agreement. It may be more of a standard practice in some areas of the country than others? Im in the westcountry for Example

GoodLordyTheExcusesWeMakeForThem · 15/08/2024 16:07

housethatbuiltme · 15/08/2024 16:01

My point is a direct debit literally does it for you. There's no excuse not to have one set up when you move in so you do not have to do anything.

All OP has done is made excuses and none of them excuse her from the very real face she is not paying rent on time and now doesn't want to pay at all... she is not a victim but is desperate to make herself one.

And nothing youve sqid changes my point

MSLRT · 15/08/2024 16:09

littledragon99 · 15/08/2024 13:58

I have ADHD and often need to be reminded

I'm sorry but this is no excuse. ADHD or not, you can put an alert on your phone or note it in your diary/calendar. Sounds like she is looking to earn rent from a more reliable source.

iwishihadknownmore · 15/08/2024 16:13

Mental, i had a room with kitchen in shared house in Ruislip Manor for £50 a week, bills included but that was 30 years ago!!!

Point here being my salary has increased 3x fold since then, but rents have gone up 6x fold.

I doubt any communal area is in the tenancy agreement, as its not an HMO requirement to provide one.

Pay any rent arrears asap, beyond a certain amount, its grounds for eviction but she can evict you for any reason at present.

NewGreenDuck · 15/08/2024 16:15

I do know several landlords who habitually issue the notice at the time the tenancy is created. It's a 'just in case', so that proceedings may commence ASAP if required.

WoolySnail · 15/08/2024 16:15

GoodLordyTheExcusesWeMakeForThem · 15/08/2024 15:58

Wow who pissed in your porridge today? Got a tenant giving you trouble? Sometimes it can be quite fun to drop the tenancy delosit protection scheme bombshell on LL’s when they threaten eviction and watch the colour drain from their face as they realise you can take them for an absolute fortune if they continue to threaten your home and your entitlement to peaceful enjoyment of it. If they want to be LL’s then they have a responsibility to be good ones and know the legislation. Ignorance of the legislation is not an excuse and will cost them dearly. Of course the op SHOULD pay her rent on time. However references wont be too much of an issue since the LL is unlikely to be able to grt an eviction order without paying back her deposit in full and a damn site more in compensation allowing the op to pay a huge amount of rent upfront. Most LL’s will forgo references when faced with a year or more in rent paid upfront.

But only if the landlord didn't place it in the deposit scheme.OP doesn't actually know.

thefamous5 · 15/08/2024 16:18

I have ADHD and often need to be reminded

. Stop using that as an excuse. I have ADHD and manage to pay my bills on time. Set up a standing order, Set up a reminder in your phone. Use a diary. There are millions of tools out there to help you.

It gives tenants and people living with adhd a bad rep when you start doing shit like that.

kittensinthekitchen · 15/08/2024 16:23

@littledragon99 Firstly, sorry for your loss.

You say you've been able to work normally, just struggling to hold it together at home - so where have the financial troubles come from that make paying rent difficult?

GoodLordyTheExcusesWeMakeForThem · 15/08/2024 16:24

Theweepywillow · 15/08/2024 14:24

Don’t be ridiculous .

I don’t see why I am being ridiculous? In my personal situation the judge sided with me and ruled that my medical conditions (epilepsy, therefore couldnt drive) trumped the LL’s (stroke but her husband could drive her) and I was able to have the court transfer the proceedings to my local court which was a 6 hour drive from where she lived. She hired a solicitor and barrister and it cost her an arm and a leg because of how many times her eviction notices and defences to my claim for the tdps compensation were thrown out and they had to start from scratch. It didnt even cost me a penny to make the claim. As a Veteran and a war pensioner, my income meant that my court fees for bringing the application were covered in full. I walked away with £11,000 and my deposit back in full and sent the bailiffs to her door while i was able to stay in my home unmolested by my LL who thought just because she owned the house she could ignore the law and turf me out. Lesson learned id say. The judge was certainly sympathetic to my medical situation and so it would be great if you could clarify what im being ridiculous about?

usernamealreadytaken · 15/08/2024 16:24

Mugcake · 15/08/2024 15:34

If council tax is being paid as a 3 bedroom and it's now technically 4 she's breaking the law and you could report her. I had a dogey landlord in Clapham who made us write that it was a 4 bed on the council tax form but actually we had 5 people living there.
£1200 is extortionate for a room even in London, I'd say £700 is more usual so maybe you could look on spareroom and see if there's anything else? Once relationships Sour it's hard to get them back on track, especially if you're suffering from depression.
Ps:don't withhold rent, it makes you're situation legally worse. Annoying as it is. What do the others in your house think of this new arrangement. If you all complain together it might be easier.

Edited

Council tax is based on the value of the property, often based on number of rooms, not how many bedrooms or what rooms are used for.

Livelovebehappy · 15/08/2024 16:29

GoodLordyTheExcusesWeMakeForThem · 15/08/2024 16:24

I don’t see why I am being ridiculous? In my personal situation the judge sided with me and ruled that my medical conditions (epilepsy, therefore couldnt drive) trumped the LL’s (stroke but her husband could drive her) and I was able to have the court transfer the proceedings to my local court which was a 6 hour drive from where she lived. She hired a solicitor and barrister and it cost her an arm and a leg because of how many times her eviction notices and defences to my claim for the tdps compensation were thrown out and they had to start from scratch. It didnt even cost me a penny to make the claim. As a Veteran and a war pensioner, my income meant that my court fees for bringing the application were covered in full. I walked away with £11,000 and my deposit back in full and sent the bailiffs to her door while i was able to stay in my home unmolested by my LL who thought just because she owned the house she could ignore the law and turf me out. Lesson learned id say. The judge was certainly sympathetic to my medical situation and so it would be great if you could clarify what im being ridiculous about?

And this, people, is one of the reasons why landlords are selling up in droves. Seriously, who’d want to be a landlord with all this shite thrown at them?? I’d just sell the house, and invest the money in an interest bearing account. Too many unhinged people with zero moral compasses out there. You’ve no idea who you’re handing your property to.

Growsomeballswoman · 15/08/2024 16:29

Are you in arrears with your rent now?

Cherrysoup · 15/08/2024 16:37

CaptainBolt · 15/08/2024 13:46

Maybe the landlord could get a job to pay his/her own bills.

I work full time yet still need the rent from the house I worked my arse off to buy. Don’t be silly.

FeetupTvon · 15/08/2024 16:40

To be fair £1200 per month in West London is a fair price for a room- I assume it’s a double?
My friend rents a room in SW18 and pays £1150, but not all bills are included.