To object to DD being taken on a weekend away

[Beckettstrousers]

I've (M, late 40s) been married 20 years, with the last 6 or 7 of these being as good friends who co-parent a child (10) rather than sexual or 'romantic' partners. We get on well, don't argue, and have created a happy and stable home for our DD, who has no sense that we're not more of a normal couple than we actually are. Nor do our friends or family. We socialise and go on holiday as a family, but also do both separately. It's not ideal, but it works just about well enough.

We've said to each other that if we wanted to see someone else* that would be fine, but that we will try to stay together for as long as we can for the stability this brings to our kid's life, and the pleasure we both get in parenting her full-time, and seeing her daily.

[*AFAIK, neither of us has actually done this.]

Recently, my OH (W, mid-40s) has become close to a single man who I don't know well at all but have met. She has 'feelings' for him. He's fresh out of a break up. They're currently just friends. He has a child a little older than ours, with whom our kid gets on ok - nothing special. He invited my OH and my daughter (but not me) to spend a weekend at his cottage in Somerset.

I objected to this because I didn't think it was appropriate. I had no problem with my OH spending time with him, given our situation: that was entirely her choice. But I was worried my daughter would pick up on any romantic vibes that may (but also may not) have been developing between them, and that this would confuse her. I also pointed out that if we ever did split up properly, and this guy was involved, our daughter might retrospectively reinterpret this weekend as a factor in the breakup of our household, and feel complicit or in some way involved. It might be a source of future resentment or guilt. We know we can't keep this up forever without letting our DD know more about our situation (my OH really, really does not want to tell her) but she's still v young and this would NOT be a good way to find out.

My OH feels I'm being controlling and overreacting to an innocent weekend away. So: AIBU?

I think this part of your Op is key: My OH feels I'm being controlling and overreacting to an innocent weekend away. So: AIBU?

The question you should be asking yourself is: Do you really think that the mother of your child is incapable of protecting dc? Do you really think that she would take dc on this weekend away if there was a real risk of dc picking up on romantic vibes? Do you have genuine reason to mistrust her judgement on this?

This.

Plus the idea that you can see other people while maintaining a charade is silly. No sane, healthy person will start a relationship with someone in your and your wife's situation. Which means invariably, you'll be seeing unhealthy people. Hence the weekend away. Unhealthy.

Secrets and lies aren't a happy childhood. Nor is seeing an unaffectionate relationship as your main role models.

So your DD doesn't get to see what a loving affectionate relationship looks like? I assume she never sees you kissing or hugging each other? That's so sad. It's going to affect her future relationships.

All children should have to say, "eeeuuuuuwwwwww' regularly at their parents being loving and affectionate. My poor DD says it at least once a day.

This

Its totally messed up. She wants her cake and to eat it too… and involve your child in the whole sorry affair.

How can your wife contemplate starting a relationship with another man and bring her daughter along for the ride? How does she explain the situation? How does she even know that it’s safe for your daughter to be around this stranger??

Also OP… have you considered that your wife wants to play happy families on the side and see how that goes whilst you sit patiently at home? Sounds to me like in an effort to keep the family unit together you could lose it anyway if she decides to leave toj and blend families with this other guy.

this ^^

been there, done that, tried the whole open marriage/friendly coparent relationship thing. It only works as long as you’re both happy having casual flings - as soon as someone catches feelings it’s a problem and you end up living a half-life.

I totally get your reasons for trying to preserve normality for your DC, but long term it’s not sustainable. Imagine how betrayed your DC will feel when they’re old enough to twig that their entire upbringing has been based on secrecy. My DC now see me and their DF happy with new partners, coparenting in a friendly way with everything out in the open.

Ask yourself what kind of relationship you’d like to model to your DC - one where there’s secrecy and pretence and unfulfillment, or one where it’s ok to say ‘this doesn’t work for me anymore, let’s part as friends’ and find real happiness? I know which I’d choose for my DC and believe me, i agonised over it for years. It was the right choice, for them, for me, for my partner, and for their dad and his new partner. We’re all one big friendship group and all the DC see respect and kindness between us.

Your open relationship really needs to be completely seperated from your DD. She shouldn't know anything about it. I don't condone lying to your children (which you already are doing) but there are definitely things that they don't need to know. She also doesn't need to find out that her parents aren't actually together and walk in on her mum kissing another man at the same time, which seems likely to happen in this scenario.

You should separate and be close friends. It's not going to damage your child and you can still spend lots of time together, but you do need to stop being actively deceitful. It's not what you do in a family unit, you don't single one person out and keep them in the dark about things that are this important. It's completely for selfish reasons too, you both just don't want to sacrifice time with her, but you are happy for her to live a lie.

DH's parents did this, they now question their childhood and hate that they were lied to.
Split if you're not together it's unfair on any children.

Please end your marriage amicably, and tell your daughter asap. My exh and I stopping being in love and whilst we both were desperate to stay together for the kids (and did so for a number of years), we decided that we had to separate to give each other the chance to find love again as we were too young to never have sec again. And whilst neither of us had met anyone else we liked or been unfaithful, we both knew at some point it was bound to happen. So it was better to divorce before this happened. Within a couple of mo the of him moving out, both of us were attracted so someone else so I’m so glad we made the decision based on falling out of love with each other (which is what we told our kids) rather than because we’d met someone else.

you are NOT doing your child any favours by staying together for them!!!

I'd be interested to read the studies you mentioned. As a child of parents who stayed together for the sake of the children, I totally disagree. As a divorced co-parent, my own children are far happier - admittedly after the initial upset had calmed down. They now get two whole parents rather then the shell of the people we were before as the weight of a dead marriage drags you down.

Your wife shouldn't be introducing your daughter at this stage though.

I was a child who had parents cohabiting and staying together for the sake of the children. I wasn't daft, I knew their relationship was not normal for a long time and not like my friends parents. My parents were civil , very much like your arrangement, but I knew things weren't right from a similar age.

Your daughter is 10, sooner or later she's going to figure it out this arrangement isn't what it seems, that's if she hasn't already figured it out depending on how mature she is.

It's so inappropriate. Imagine how confusing this will be for the child. That said, you're not doing her any favours staying together at this point.

I completely agree with this. I had parents who who this arrangement. I never saw them being loving or affectionate. I sometimes struggle to be affectionate now, it doesnt come naturally to me and I believe part of the reason is because it was never modelled to me as I was growing up. They may believe they are doing the right thing by thier daughter, but really it does more harm than good in the long run.

I agree with others.

Either continue as you are and no holiday.

Or officially split.

I agree with you that this could be utterly confusing for your dd. Even more so if she feels something or even witnesses something she'll have guilt about keeping quiet to protect mum or telling dad.

That's really unfair emotional blackmail for a 10yo whether intentional or not.

Most of this advice is terrible.

I think it's fine to go away, but only without anyone's kids. It should just be them alone, it's far too early to involve children.

How is it "working"?

Would you be happy if your DD was in a relationship like this?

Its "better than the alternatives thus far" clearly not for your DW - she wants more as shown by this new man

This. The circumstances have changed. Time to split completely. In the meantime, I agree that it's not in your dd's best interests to go on this weekend away.

It will seen very unusual to Dd that mummy is having a weekend away and playing happy families with another man . Its not fair on dd to try and fly this past her and expect her to accept it as normal.
Its not normal. You know that.
Your dw is being totally selfish and cruel to both you and dd here by trying to line her next nest without officially leaving the old one.
YANBU.
Maybe time to bite the bullet and face reality. The relationship is over and dw wants to move on with next stage.

The only mistake the pair of you have made is to pretend to your DD for 7 years that her mum and dad are still happily married! When she eventually finds out that your marriage is a sham she may well be extremely angry with the both of you.
The time has now come for you to actually separate so each of you can be free to begin new relationships.

No, you’re not like ‘millions of other families’. You’ve consciously chosen to live a lie in order to fool your child.

M 40s here. I'd suggest that the pair of you need to come clean to your daughter before anything happens with prospective partners. She is living a lie, and when that lie is found out she will have every right to lash out at the parent who she thinks is in the wrong. It could be your wife who she lashes out at because she sees the romantic relationship with her friend (Exactly as you say) or you, because you didn't fight for your relationship with your wife. Or both of you because you lied to her. It doesn't matter what your perspective is, it doesn't matter what your wife's perspective is, it matters what your daughter's perspective would be.
She's 10, she's not 3. She knows that parents break up, she knows that parents don't have to love each other, but she doesn't know that's happening to her, and it can completely destabalise her if handled wrongly.
I'm not saying to move out or change how you guys all interact, but she needs to know the truth before she interacts with any perspective partner on either side. I think your set-up is nearly perfect to bring your daughter into and have seen it work very well for a friend of mine, but only because the son knew that the parents loved him, respected him, respected each other, but didn't love each other anymore. Like you say it's all inter-linked and on the subject of possible partners all you and your wife have done is kept kicking that ball down the road, perhaps deep down both or one of you hoped to be able to kick that ball forever and not have to hit this point.
Personally I would have no issue with them going to stay at his IF your daughter knew the status of you and your wifes' relationship. I do agree with your wife that it looks like you are trying to control her relationship. Sorry if you didn't want to hear that answer, but I can only tell you my honest opinion.

I do agree with your wife that it looks like you are trying to control her relationship. Sorry if you didn't want to hear that answer, but I can only tell you my honest opinion.

My honest opinioin is diametrically opposite. It's the wife who won't countenance splitting up or telling DD that she and the OP aren't a couple anymore. She's the one insisting on presenting a facade of happy families. But now she wants to take DD away with a man who is not DD's father and can't see a problem or that DD is going to question what the hell is going on.

She wants it all on her terms, the very definition of controlling.

@Beckettstrousers You wrote in your Op that your wife and this single man are currently just friends.

However, most people are responding to your Op as if your wife and this man are already romantically involved.

Has she ever said to you that she has feelings for this man or are you just assuming that because she and he get along really well?

You have made it clear that you and your wife are only together for the sake of your dd. That you and your wife are not really a couple anymore. You also say this man is someone you don’t know well but have met, so he is not your friend, he is your wife’s friend. Under those circumstances why would they invite you?

Weekend away with a platonic friend and his child, yes it is perfectly fine for your dd to go with her mum.

If you are paranoid that your wife will become romantically involved with this man on the weekend getaway in front of your dd and you won’t allow them to go then that is a massive red flag for coercive control.

It would not be unreasonable to discuss your concerns with your wife in a respectful way and without accusing her.

However, it is unreasonable for you to prevent your wife from taking dd on an innocent weekend getaway that could be a wonderful experience for your dd.

And it is unreasonable to accuse her of behaving inappropriately in front of your dd when she hasn’t done so or potentially behaving inappropriately in front of dd when you have no evidence at all that she would.

What a mess. You sound like a good man. That’s a sentence not often said on here! Get divorced and get on with your life. Your daughter will be fine.

If you really want to carry on with this diception, your ‘wife’ presumably agreed to this plan? If so she needs to get with the programme and go away with her new man alone.

My aunt and uncle lived as you do. The kids eventually found out as they hit their mid teens. It seriously messed with one of their heads. Their whole family life had been a lie. I now have one cousin instead of two. You need an exit plan for this charade. Taking your daughter away with this man is not it.