To think people's response to Dad's caring for DC is completely different to Mum's

[Lucyfoot]

I had a hospital appointment yesterday. I was very early because you have to allow so much time to get parked so had plenty of people watching time in the waiting room.

There were several people there with children, mostly because one child had an appointment and the parent needed to take the others. Most of there parents were women, but one man.

The women, looked stressed, tired, hot and bothered, but doing a good job of having DC sit and wait nicely etc.

The man came in beaming with three beautifully behaved little boys, he was doing a good job, kept them chatting, made sure they'd all been to the loo etc. However, two older ladies told him how wonderful he was, and during his appointment a nurse (HCA?) brought the DC , who weren't being seen, out to the waiting room to get water.

None of the women were complimented or helped like this.

When the kids were small my husband left the house at 6.30am and returned at 6.45pm every week day. I had 3 children 4 and under. They went to bed at 7pm. So during the week he did 15 minutes parenting per day. Whenever the in-laws or my Dad came to visit they would all spend the whole time telling me how lucky I was to have him, what with him being so amazingly helpful with the kids! If I ever said anything I got 'well yes of course you are doing a good job too' No family near me, so I did it all by myself! So so grating!

I always say that I am quite a mediocre mum, but would be an amazing dad!

Yep! I’m a step parent - love my DSS so so much and love spending time with him, and people always seem surprised when he’s with his dad without me as if they can’t possibly understand why his actual parent is the one looking after him and not me - because I’m the woman.

@DadJoke The only real exception I’ve seen - also driven by sexism - is stay-at-home dads, who tend to be sneered at and excluded from the mother’s circle once they’ve figured out he’s not one of those “brave“ single dads.

Nah, even as a "brave" single dad I got excluded from a fair amount of things. I also got told more than once that I must be counting down the days until my ex got herself together and could take over parenting(!?) Weirdly that kind of comment mostly came from women; other men's comments were more usually along the lines of "Jesus, I couldn't do what you're doing."

But the general gist of the OP is absolutely correct - the bar for fathers is way lower than it is for mothers. Compared against the legions of men who have no observable interest in parenting, if you're a bloke and you show up with children who have at least got their clothes on the right way round you're still seen as a novelty. It's definitely getting better but this kind of societal shift is never quick.

Thinking about it more, it represents two core beliefs held by many people: being a mother is the highest calling a woman can pursue, and women are the default parent. The latter is one that's played out on mumsnet every day in the threads about a woman's parenting choices being different than her partner's and the opinion is that the man is therefore automatically doing it wrong.

if you're a bloke and you show up with children who have at least got their clothes on the right way round

Oh no, that's levelling up already. There are a million social media posts where dads have taken kids out with clothes inside out, winter coat in the middle of heatwave or put 5yo into 5 month old sibling's leggings - isn't it hilarious! But isn't he a good dad!
(honestly I would be terrified to let such, clearly a bumbling idiot, take care of my offspring, but clearly I have unreasonably high expectations).

Where are these places?

My amazing dad is always taking my disabled (now adult) ds or my younger nephew places and doing childcare for my sister and I. (Widowed and wants to help before anyone jumps on the expecting grandparent childcare)

I'm sure he'd love to go somewhere he's complemented for his efforts.

He tends to just be ignored 😂

I'm wondering here though if it's because of a difference in behaviour and that's why they complemented him?

You yourself said the woman were hot and stressed and trying their best with one child.

And yet he walked in with 3 who were all beautifully behaved and set nicely.

Did you realise you described the man and woman so differently?

Love this 🥰

I'm in a group for people having problems with the Child Maintenance Service. The difference in treatment between a male resident parent & a female one is disgusting & evidences quite clearly the contempt society has for mother's while treating dads who parent as saintly. It's sickening to witness.

A friend of mine took his daughter for one of her sets of immunizations. Doctors sugery were openly unhappy. Said this had never happened before and they weren’t sure if it was “allowed”. Happened in England less than a year ago 🙈. I thought it was a wind up when l heard about it

Absolutely this!

It starts so early on too ... DC3 was born at home, planned, but before midwives could get there.

Literally everyone - absolutely everyone - on hearing this story turns to DH and said "oh congratulations, you delivered him yourself? You did so well!"

Umm, no, because to the best of my knowledge (and I do remember it quite vividly) 1) I'm the one with the vagina 2) I'm the one who had all the contractions and 3) I did ALL THE FUCKING PUSHING. His efforts were catch the baby if I was unable to

People genuinely prefer to praise him for being near childbirth than me for going through it

Mind-blowing

Yes this defiantly happens - but it is women who praise men too much for doing something that is actually basic

This defo happens. When my son was small i was a single parent and there was a single dad called Kev, who had a kid in the same school year as my son who i got on with in a friendly way. He and I got along and accompanied on school trips a couple of times and we got to know each other a little he said i was the only person who treated him like a normal person - the treatment he got from the other females used to embarrass him and make him feel 'lesser than' - he really hated it

In the playground at school collection time - Kev got fawned over left right and Centre, constant compliments how great a parent he was - and assumptions on what had happened to the mother of his kids, ie assuming he had been shat on or the mother of his kids was died. No one ever asked him the truth. This behavior was always from other females offering him help, to collect the kids or drop them off or how well he did making them a packed lunch

As a single mother - my experience was right the other way - the assumptions were that the woman is a huge trollope. Constant questions almost accusation like 'and how old were you when you had your child?' and questions like 'and where's the father?' from strangers....

The single dad used to laugh at these women fawning over him and he told me that people will always act a different way when there is even the tiniest chance of them bedding him. He said men don't act this way but women do - so go figure

In my experience with the CSA at least they were hopeless at getting my ex to pay what she owed. Trying to get them to do anything at all was like pulling teeth.

Also, having gone through the Social Services child protection process, our main social worker told me quite frankly that my ex had been given way more opportunities to address her issues than I would've got as a man.

The difference in how I got treated as a single Mum, and how my single dad friends got treated was incredible. I'd get asked what I did to make my ex leave (nothing, he was a cheating piece of scum). Single dad friend got asked why his ex left, what a Bitch etc.

I'd get asked why I didn't work/ work more hours when i was working. Single dad friend couldn't possibly work and parent.
My local toddler group was open on Wednesday for any parent. We were expected to help with the clearing up, supervise the craft etc. Hot drinks were limited to snack time only. And then they decided we didn't need biscuits so the only "snack" on offer was a bread stick. Now that's all fine except
There was also a Saturday morning group. Dad's only. Other than the mums who set up and cleared away. The mums who supervised the craft. The mums who made the tea. Oh and bacon sandwiches. Because Dad deserved a treat for looking after his child.

And it's not just parenting. I used to get up for work at 5.30/6am. I also wasn't home until 10pm some days. On top of being a single parent remember. So my days off weren't relaxing, not much chance for a lay in.

I mentioned once to my mum that I was exhausted and just got a load of "yes well, that's what being an adult/parent is about. I used to get up and travel into London blah blah". Recently she mentioned how much my brother (who is a married parent) deserves his late morning starts because he gets up at 6am for work. He's also home by 5.30 and his wife will have cooked his dinner.

Ffs

My husband comments on this all the time. He's always being told he's a great father just for doing things that we both consider just 'Parenting 101' like turning up for parent's evenings, taking DS swimming etc. As someone has already commented, the bar seems set much lower for men than women....

@JumpingAtShadows1 you said something I've noticed myself. A single mother is often viewed as being at fault. She should have chosen a better man. She should have just kept her legs closed. She should have expected this to happen. In essence, a single mother puts herself in that position due to her own failings.

By contrast, a single father is assumed to have ended up in that position either by tragedy (mother's dead) or through the mother of his children failing to be a parent. Either way, he's thrust into that position through no fault of his own.

It's a really stark double standard.

Yeah it's definitely a thing. Dads are praised for doing the things mums are expected to do by default. My husband used to get really nowty about it bless him. "Oooh are you on babysitting duty today?" "No I'm parenting my child, fuck off". It annoys him more than me bizarrely 🙃

I agree OP. I find this really annoying!

Don't. Our primary school put on a 'dad's morning' and had the CEO of the academy group come to talk to them about their ambition for the schools they oversaw, his experience in education, growth plans, etc.

The women asked where their morning was, so the school put one on, and the school lead on maths came to give us advice on how to help our children with their maths homework.

When my dd was small I moved into a group of units where a couple of the tenants (women) came out and introduced themselves when I was moving in. At first I thought they were being friendly. I am a single mum and my dd’s dad (my ex) was helping me move (also had removalists). They stood next to my front door having a loud conversation about how so many criminals were raised by single mothers. And as I was going in and out of the house with bringing stuff we had packed in the car in, they smirked at me. I had no idea how they new I was a single mum, but they did. Either the realestate or the landlord told them.

A few months later a single dad moved in and the reception he got was vastly different. They fawned over him, told him how amazing he was to step up and look after his son, offered him help with absolutely anything. His ds was a similar age to my dd so we got to know each other and our kids played together a lot. He really wasn’t comfortable with the way he was treated differently. And like JumpingAtShadows1 said in previous post it is often women who heap praise on men for parenting.

But is it really praise? It seems more like surprise that they are even capable of basic parenting, which is a little bit insulting when you think about it.

I got so fed up of not being listened to by health professionals (I was told my daughter was attention seeking when she was seriously ill) that my husband now does most of the medical appointments (our kids have several health problems). I find you get viewed as a moaning Mum but Dad's get listened to more. Not all of course.

I don't understand why anyone gets praised for perpetuating their own DNA. It's their project, I don't care how well they do it.

But is it really praise? It seems more like surprise that they are even capable of basic parenting, which is a little bit insulting when you think about it.

I think there is an element of that to it. There is a fairly widespread opinion that fathers are utterly useless at being a parent so if you're a dad you manage to return home with the same number of children that you left with you're regarded as some kind of anomaly. It's a bit on the patronising side.

I think its quite true. My DH took the kids to a cafe and the owner said they were wonderful and gave them free ice creams. My kids are well behaved with me so definitely feel there is male privilege 😂