Am I being mean about the "supersweet" friend?

[endlessnonsense]

I have a friend (well, she's equally a friend of me and DH, she and her XH used to be our neighbours). We now only see her a couple of times a year as we live far away now, and I wouldn't call her a really close friend. When we go on holiday, which is to a hot seaside place in Europe, we often get friends joining us as we have a place to stay and a boat, which is fun. This year she came.

I spent a lot of the time she was here in a state of suppressed anger at her, which caused me to resent her being here. This is because she turned out, on a several-days long time together, rather than the odd dinner we usually have, to be constantly pretending (or was she pretending?) to be very thoughtful and considerate, when I felt she was being just the opposite, in a passive aggressive way.

Everywhere we suggested going and everything we suggested doing, she deferred to us, "oh I'll do whatever you want, don't worry about me", never offering any suggestions of her own or seeming especially enthusiatic. OK, fair enough, we know the place and she doesn't. But it went much further. She was always faux putting herself down/being the martyr/putting on performative sweetness.

My son has special needs and she is always supersweet to him, but I told her multiple times during the holiday, no, he doesn't want an ice cream, he doesn't like it. It must have run into more than a dozen times she said, "oh darling, do you want an ice cream, oh please let me get him an ice cream, I'll pay"(as though I wasn't getting him the ice cream myself because of meanness). (Strangely, although she knows he does like chocolate, she never once offered to buy him a chocolate)

We planned a trip to a particular place she hadn't been, specifically to show it to her. Other friends were coming too, they are local and had been to the place many times, but we're coming along to be sociable with us and her. When she asked me how many people were coming and I mentioned it would be quite a few (in positive way, saying it would be a fun social event) she said, all sweetly, "well if you don't have room for me I'll just stay behind at the apartment, I don't mind at all". That really annoyed me, she knew the trip was arranged specifically for her!

Another (even more annoying) example, we were at a beach bar/restaurant with a bunch of people. Too many to get one table so we were split between 2 tables. Our food came marginally before the other table's (not more than 2 or 3 minutes). In that time she expressed concern that the toddler at the other table had not yet got her food, and actually got up to take her own plate of food to the toddler (it was a salad of some sort and the toddler was getting chips, so not even remotely the same thing). Me and DH had to physically get her to stop it and sit down before the toddler's mum saw.

She has always been very much a "oh don't worry about me, I'll just have a tap water" type of person, but on this holiday she really got my goat. She's left now and I am not sure if she noticed I was a bit snippy with her by the end. AIBU and a mean friend?

That’s like my mother. I make Christmas dinner, she says

‘oh don’t go to any trouble, I’ll just have beans on toast!’

But that would mean making an extra meal? I’m already cooking the Christmas dinner for my own children so it’s no extra work to serve some to her.

‘Fine, I’ll just have tea and apple tart if that’s easier’

But that’s not what I’m having for dinner! That’s extra work to give her that while the dinner is going on. (Which is fairly normal btw, nothing too fancy, it’s roast chicken and vegetables)

She is very uncomfortable with people making an effort for her. My mother is a very generous person but hates gifts or ‘putting people out’ to the extreme.

The other thing to note about people pleasers is that they often have very highly developed awareness of the moods and feelings of others. They will have spent much time learning to read others to ensure they are pleasing. Unfortunately this means that when you are even subtly irritated by a people pleaser, they will often know. This can set them off trying even harder to win back your approval, because they don't know its that that's displeased you, only that something has. So you get this awful vicious circle where the harder they try the more they annoy the harder they try.

Oh I'm not a people pleaser.

Of the examples of the irritating behaviour given I would express my preferences; I have no interest whatsoever in feeding a random toddler or buying random ice-creams. I might be a bit puzzled why the trip out to whatever the extra special thing which everyone had seen apart from me turned into a mass event. That might irk me as it's being turned into a big thing for my benefit. And I suspect the OP presented it that way

I think the OP is protesting too much about not "inviting" the friend ( , no actual invite needed (but we did remind her of our holiday dates a few months ago ) / I did offer her a room because we had one free that week )mean, hypocritical and a bit needy in seeking validation for her behaviour.

@5128gap

The other thing to note about people pleasers is that they often have very highly developed awareness of the moods and feelings of others. They will have spent much time learning to read others to ensure they are pleasing. Unfortunately this means that when you are even subtly irritated by a people pleaser, they will often know

This is true.

But it does make you wonder they apparently can’t ever make the connection between the people pleasing and the irritation?

Surely if you are raised in an environment where it’s impossible to please your parents there comes a point where you put two and two together and just give up?

If there’s a diminishing cycle of returns between your faultless behaviour and the return you get would you not at some point have a lightbulb moment and go: “fuck trying to keep everyone happy I will suit myself”?

This woman is a recent divorcee so maybe she needs to get used to the new reality…

Nothing was "turned into a big thing" Everyone takes their boat out somewhere every day if the weather is good. We and some other people decided we'd go to a certain nice place that day (no more special than any of the other places we go) because this friend hadn't been there. If we hadn't gone there we would have gone somewhere else. It was just strange for her to then say she would stay behind given those circumstances.

Anyway, I have my answer, a significant minority believe I am mean. Something to ponder on.

OP, I've only read your posts and the first two pages so I haven't seen a lot of the polarising but it doesn't surprise me.

But I am 100% with you. It's very passive aggressive and attention seeking but also very confusing because it doesnt actually WORK but rather just irritates everyone. So what happens is the person says or does something to appear "kind" or whatever. The recipient or others get irritated. The original person then feels like a victim. I don' tknow, maybe it's a form of narcissism?

I have had a few people like this in my life over the years, including my mother (although she wasn't an extreme version like your friend). I have zero tolerance.

PA (passive aggressive) person (for the 10000th time); Oh, can I get him an ice cream, I'll pay
Me: I keep telling you, he doesn't like ice cream. If you want to get him something, I'm sure he'd love one of those fancy chocolate bars from the little deli over there?

PA: "Oh, I'll give her my salad because her foood isn't coming"
Me: "hahahaha, have you ever met a toddler who likes salad. Give it 2 minutes, I'm sure the food will arrive imminently".

PA: "Oh, don't worry about making me dinner, I'll just have some bread"
Me: "Do you really think I'm going to cook a lovely meal for myself and everyone else and exclude you? What kind of a person do you think I am?"

Come to think of it, now I've picked those two examples - perhaps it's about her judging food choices!?

You really have little self awareness. The day out was described by you in the first post as

We planned a trip to a particular place she hadn't been, specifically to show it to her. Other friends were coming too, they are local and had been to the place many times, but we're coming along to be sociable with us and her. When she asked me how many people were coming and I mentioned it would be quite a few (in positive way, saying it would be a fun social event)

You apparently can't see any difference between what was , I guess in her mind, initially planned for the 3 of you and which then turned into a big group event. And you seem to have no understanding that for some people that changes the dynamic.

Sure, but you don't seem to be able to see that the mature response from the friend in this scenario would be to explain their needs weren't being met ("I feel uncomfortable in a big group") and work with the host to find a compromise rather than making oblique and unnecessarily self-sacrificing suggestions like not going at all?

Yes that's true too but self- awareness is needed on both sides. And saying " oh there might not be room" is perhaps easier than saying " I thought it was just the 3 of us, I'm not very comfortable in a big group" ( the latter would have gone down like a lead balloon too)

The OP has changed the narrative on whether she invited the friend from "she invited her because the friend was on her own" to, "oh no, didn't invite her" , then to "we reminded her when we were going, she's welcome to come, stay in our spare room, but that's not an invitation" so I'm sceptical of the OP's version of events.

It’s like the posts on performance parenting. It’s quite nuanced and hard to explain but when you see it you know. Then if you post about it you get all the annoying “can’t I even talk to my child” posters spectacularly missing the point!

@IHaveNeverLivedintheCastle that's fair. I don't agree with your skepticism due to the general tone of OP's posts, but understand why you'd have it

She would never have thought the day out would be for just us. We had been out on day trips on the boat three or four times since she had arrived and every time we went with other families in other boats. It was exactly the same the last times she came here (even more so, there are fewer people here this year), she knows exactly what our holidays look like, its what people do here. She says she enjoys seeing people, and she knows a few of the people here either from home or from previous trips.

And she doesn't feel uncomfortable in a group, she was telling me only the night before what fun it is to hang out with various different people (she works as hard as I do and doesn't get to socialise much at home). She also specifically timed her trip to coincide with certain people being here. So that's not it at all.

You're not mean, this is just one of those things that is hard to describe why it's irritating because it's about the tone and the general vibe of this person, not so much about WHAT they did, but how.

And also, like someone already said there is a lot of people pleasers around who will take offence at this thread!

I can’t stand this performative niceness that’s really over the top, I tend to drift away from people like that, it just all seems so insincere and like they’re trying to give the appearance of being good to get something or hide something.

@IHaveNeverLivedintheCastle

You apparently can't see any difference between what was , I guess in her mind, initially planned for the 3 of you and which then turned into a big group event. And you seem to have no understanding that for some people that changes the dynamic.

But in that scenario a healthily assertive person would simply have said: “I don’t feel like making this into a big group thing, I would rather wait until we can do it on a quieter day.”

Rather than turning into an exercise in performance self effacement and making a big thing about staying away.

Not sure but I see it a lot. Particularly with older women and their adult children, who depressingly many seem absolutely terrified of. Run rings round themselves trying to please, getting it wrong and being viewed as 'fussing' then try another way to please. It's very hard to watch. Interestingly they're not always like that with other people, so it seems to be a response to the displeasure. Maybe it's that 'nice' people do typically please others so when they irritate them they think they've not been nice enough.

You sound like you are reflecting on your quite visceral response to her. I think she evoked an incredibly disproportionate reaction from you and maybe you should think about why.

On a lighter note, I have a lasting impression of you and your husband galloping over to save the toddler from her salad!!!

Someone always does.

I'm glad there are people like you - it means I don't have to bother with irritating people. She would get right on my tits.

I think she really likes you & wants to gain approval from you. She's also perhaps feeling anxious. I feel a bit sorry for her

@Marinade

On a lighter note, I have a lasting impression of you and your husband galloping over to save the toddler from her salad!!!

I do think the salad performance was utterly ridiculous (on her part). Who in their right mind would think a) that it was necessary to alleviate the need for the child to wait another couple of minutes and b) that a salad would satisfy a toddler.

That little episode alone would really have wound me up.

I'm getting Emma/Miss Bates vibes

It was overly dramatic on both parts to be honest. The way it was presented in the OP seemed definitely OTT. A clumsy attempt by the friend to ensure the toddler was not left hungry did not need to be highlighted in such an angry manner, in my opinion.

If she didn't feel up to going out with other people that day (which she had done, and enjoyed on several previous days) then she could have said so. No reason required. I myself have not gone out every day, I also enjoy some time just relaxing alone. DH generally takes our son out on the boat every day it is possible, because they both love the boat and being with other people. I stay behind from time to time. Another friend has said on one of the days she would rather stay and read her book on the beach, then meet us later. No problem. No need to pretend she was being some kind of martyr who was doing us all a favour by staying behind (for a trip we had specifically planned with her in mind, and with her enthusiastic agreement the previous evening).

Anyway, interestingly, given that people are saying that I am making a lot of effort to justify my feelings (and sure, maybe I am), many people on here are finding reasons to justify her behaviour by factors which are in fact not present and have not been described.

🙄