To think this is fucking crazy

[itstheendoftheworldasweknowitnow]

We’re en route to a holiday rental in France. I wasn’t sure if the pool was shared or not between other guests so emailed the owner to ask. This is his reply - which I put in to google translate
Could you tell me if sharing the swimming pool with us who occupy the ground floor bothers you and for what reason? Recently we refused the rental because the wife and the two young daughters were veiled; are you english or muslim? We do not want you to make the trip and see yourself refused access to our property for reasons of displaying religious beliefs which are very resented by the neighborhood.

Fuck Fuck Fuck
What the hell do I do?
I am not a Muslim.
I am also not a racist.

I would, and if refused entry I would call Booking.com and get a refund immediately.

Don't know whether it's funny or depressing the number of people on here who are oblivious to the racism and think the OP's dilemma is about the sharing of the pool...

"It's a shame you didn't ask about the pool earlier but not to worry I'm sure you'll still have a good trip!"

France had serious problems with extremism from Muslim groups way before the atrocities carried out by Hamas in October 2023.

they've had some serious problems with extremism from Muslim groups (probably triggered by Israels invasion of Gaza).

Sorry, what? Are you seriously saying the Jews are to blame for religious extremism? On a thread about racist attitudes?

I understand that, though when you purchase a iPhone it doesn’t have a label on it saying ‘produced by child labour’ on it, most people don’t think of that when they are buying the latest gadget, even though we all should, it’s very much out of sight out of mind, however the OP has been directly informed of the owners racist views of which the OP abhors, it’s the handwringing and posting on Mumsnet about how awful it is but goes ahead anyway, as if the virtue signalling on here absolves her somehow.

You would take your non-white and/or muslim children to stay at the home of someone you knew was racist and make them share a communal space with them for the week?

Knowing they were likely to make racist / anti-muslim comments casually in front of your child, asking them if they were English or Muslim? etc..

Is it true that the majority of French people hate disabled people? This is a genuine question as I was a planning a trip there but I read somewhere that they're openly hateful towards anyone disabled and intolerant of children with Autism

It is illegal to wear a hijab - his views are not uncommon. Possible you’ve hit a nerve and he’s had issues with people complaining about sharing the pool or issues with guests and neighbours. I would just be polite and enjoy your holiday.. I’d probably not leave excellent feedback though. Racism and discrimination (particularly towards Muslims) in France is absolutely rife. I’m saying that having lived here for a long time… we’ve moved around France over the years to different regions and there hasn’t been one place I haven’t witnessed discrimination to be honest. It is shocking to brits yes. It’s one aspect of french culture that is really really behind the times. Also sexism still very much alive and kicking here- discrimination at work etc also rife in my experience. The recent election debacle goes to show what people here really think/feel imo. It was pulled back from the brink but make no mistake people hold very racist views.

You should reply “We’re English and Muslim” and see if his head explodes. Enjoy your holiday!

The thing is if OP doesn’t go now, she won’t be taking a stand against racism so much as letting this guy keep her money while enjoying the place to himself. I don’t think that will feel like someone taking a stand against him.

It might be different it is was possible to recoup the money by showing his message to booking but I am not sure if that would work because although he is showing that he does refuse on grounds of religion, he hasn’t actually refused OP’s booking on those grounds.

It’s an incredibly infuriating and rude message, would really spoil things for me. I would be tempted to reply saying that you are struggling with the French and it sounds like he is saying someone was turned away on grounds of religion, but since that is illegal…have you misunderstood? See what he replies.

@babyproblems No it's not illegal to wear a Hijab in France, but it is illegal to wear a Burka

Basically, France has a massive problem with burkhas. This isn't a new thing, I remember the veil debate was already raging when I did my French A-level 20 years ago.

Women aren't allowed to wear the burkha in public or swim at public swimming pools or on beaches in a burkhini.

I imagine that some Muslim families seek out holiday accommodation with private pools for this reason - so that they can swim in swimwear which is banned in public. But this property owner doesn't want his guests doing stuff which is banned in public on his private property because it is likely to cause tension with his neighbours.

It is what it is. If you have a problem with the owner of private holiday accommodation wanting to enforce the same rules that apply to swimming in public places (which were made by elected politicians) on their own property, I would suggest that France as a whole might be problematic for you, rather than this person in particular.

@HauntedbyMagpies I would say that’s really not true and quite laughable… what is true is that you do find crap access for disabilities at tourist places etc. So worth checking before you visit anywhere if accessibility is an issue. Also that it’s less ‘24/ 7’ than the uk so if you need food or meals at different times that is not always possible depending on where you are. Obviously the south and countryside areas are much sleepier than the north / big towns and cities. I think french people have less experience with diversity as a general rule and therefore are just really not well equipped to deal with situations where differences arise. I doubt very much you would experience any sort of intolerance in the street for example or anything like that!! Which I expect you might if you were Muslim as per my previous post..

What a load of drama over nothing. You don't fit into the demographic they aren't comfortable with, so no drama, just enjoy your holiday.

That's bonkers.
Less equipments, issues with accessibility, surely. But being openly hateful is a step too far.

You guys really seem to dislike France and should maybe go to another country for your holiday.

Enjoy the holiday and the pool, just make sure that on everyone’s last swim before you leave you all pee in the precious pool water. 🙂

@itstheendoftheworldasweknowitnow having read your update with the original message you’ve received he’s not being rude - he’s been quite matter of fact enquiring why it would bother you to share the pool. If I was going to translate for you (I speak fluent french) in a ‘British’ friendly way I would say the message says the following:

Can you let us know if the sharing of the pool bothers you? We recently refused a rental because the lady and her daughters were veiled - wondering if you are Muslim and is this the issue? (Meaning you wouldn’t want to share the pool with them because you would t be comfortable as you might be Muslim?)
We wouldn’t want you to travel for no reason if this is the case as we have had to refuse some guests due to showing signs of religion (which is an infringement) and our neighbours have issue with it.
cheers! (Cordialement)

(possible they don’t care but neighbours have contacted the police for example!!!)

im not saying they’re not racist but I wouldn’t freak out to the nth degree based on the message. Hope that helps!!

Yes it sounds to me like a misunderstanding
For example it's a shared pool but maybe a Muslim family booked and didn't want to share so the owner is checking if that what's you meant.

How can they stop people from wearing whatever swimwear they want?

What if you had been badly burned and didn’t want to show your scars, but still wanted to swim- would they ask you to leave a pool?

Thats bonkers.

I lived in Provence for 15 years. If OP cancels, there is every chance that wherever she books in replacement will be exactly the same. It is the region of France with the highest proportion of FN voters, racism is rampant.

What he said is 100% racist. Racism is absolutely mainstream, particularly against muslims. But I've also been attacked for being English.

And to @Lacdulancelot : a couple of years ago homeschooling was made illegal other than in some tightly controlled circumstances. We homeschool and when we discussed it with the school inspector (who was generally lovely and very supportive of us homeschooling) he said 'about 10% of the children I inspect are from muslim families, where the women wear head coverings. That's why it has to be made only by prior approval. So that those children have to go to school.' Where they will be served pork for lunch and they have to take lunch at school...

This. No need for a drama. Enjoy your holiday.🍾🍾

Well we know exactly who you are from that unnecessary response.

Non, il n’y a une problème.
A bientôt

Yep.

If I had my way I would have as many non muslim women as I could get to wear burkinis in the beach. Then they would no longer be 'religious symbols' and would not be illegal...

They've even banned muslim girls from wearing long black skirts.

They are brazen in their islamophobia.

You conveniently left out the part where they asked if they were English or Muslim...this is plain racist/bigoted and it sounded plain racist/bigoted in French too. Being Muslim is not a nationality and English is very obviously used here as a stand in for 'white'. Also implying Muslims cannot be English. In what world is this acceptable?!