I need some real help, please: (Warning LONG) not sure if this is the right topic or not but I'm too tired

[SalVolatile]

...to name change and too tired to think. I have been putting off asking this for a while because I get too upset so I may not be able to reply to any answers iyswim .
Some old-timers may remember that (as callmemadam) I have posted before about my alcoholic younger sister, aged 40. She has been a heavy drinker/ alco for about 20 years and about 10 years ago lost her job in London, and her boyfriend/flat, and came down to live with my mum. She told anyone who would listen that she had come to 'look after mum' when the opposite was true and after several years of scenes and binges we eventually got her moved out in Jan 07. She moved in temporarily with me and my family with me policing her GP appointments, monitoring her Diazipam and trying to help her cut down. It didn't work, she got more secretive, lied continuously and moved into a flat. There she fell apart and after several weeks of hell and conduct too outrageous to mention, my father stepped in at the request of all the other siblings and put her into the Priory (£16K, not that anyone was counting). After she came out the Priory asked if she could come and stay with us again and attend outpatients. It took precisely 20 days out before she got plastered as soon as I left her alone. She spent the next few weeks semi conscious in front of various nephews and neices until we found her somewhere to live and asked her to leave. I told her that she had to choose between staying drunk and being part of our life. Since then (september) she has spiralled down and down, been sofasurfing, begging beds, telling her woes to anyone who will listen, sleeping with men who seem to offer her help, finally claimed benefit, telephoned to ask to borrow money, cashed in the ISA her dad bought her, stolen cash from my mum's house and called drunk begging me to help her as in "i'm the only one/if she doesn't have me she has no-one/ she loves me/ all she wants is a text from me/ why can't I just accept she's a drunk/why can't I call her from time to time."....................it goes on and on and on.

I've just had it again tonight - and I can't deal with her in my life unless she's sober, can't deal with the lies, the sobbing, the maudlin rambles, the hiding bottles, the conduct in front of children, the stealing or any of the rest of it, but the problem is I feel so so so bad about not being there for her any more and about rejecting her in this way, as I feel in my bones that she is not going to make it and I feel that I am part of what is going to happen and that I should somehow be able to intervene in a way that would stop it .

I'm sorry for the long ramble - I've never posted much about myself before, but I just don't know where to turn and I don't know who else to talk to about it. Should I just start again with her, meet up for dog walks (her request tonight) and try and pretend that a normal relationship is possible? She smells of alcohol most of the time, and 'normal' seems to have gone, and I find it impossible not to want to fight to get her into recovery and it seems that withholding my family is the only way to try and get her to a sense of what drink is costing her. ( but I know as I type that that isn't going to work, is is? ). She won't go to AA, she says it's not for her, and says she's 'trying', but has to have her first tin of Carlsberg at breakfast.

If you've read this far, thanks.

oh goodness, i dont know what to write. poor you and poor your sister. you sound like a truly lovely person. hugs

have no personal experience, but feel terribly for your dilemma. Dealing with alcohol must be a nightmare.

Logic says that if you keep up the pretence, you are just feeding her belief that she can carry on this way.

Hiya - didn't want to read and run but I understand how hard it is to keep trying to support and help someone who won't help themselves. Have you tried to get any support for yourself?

I wish I could send you a big hug. I can't imagine how this is for you. My dad has a drink problem, although he's not like this. I know there's a support group for families of alcoholics, I can't remember what it's called though but I bet someone will bw along in a minute who will know. I know it sounds bad but it's you and your children first. A normal relationship is going to be very hard. I know with my dad he'd sit there, watching the clock for hours waiting for 7:30 so he could start drinking. I think this way he felt as if he didn't have a problem. Recovery has to be her choice. She needs to want to do it or she'll fight it all the way. The alcohol's taken over, she won't see what a fantastic, wonderful family she has around her. I'll try and look for the name of the group for you. You should be proud of the care and support that you have given her. She will realise one day.

I'm sorry I don't have anything useful to say to you but I didn't want your post to go unanswered. I really feel for you. It sounds like you and your family have done absolutely everything possible for your sister and it's really down to her now. You now have to consider yourself and your family and, if continued contact with her is causing you stress and problems, then you have to make the break. You can't help her - only she can do that - so don't feel guilty. Have your tried Al-Anon, the support group for families of alcoholics? You might at least be able to get in touch with people in a similar situation. Good luck!

Oh god, don't know what to say to you apart from, you have tried so hard and done so well with her. What more can you do ......??? I am sorry no help at all, i just hope someone sees this tomorrow and can really offer you some words of help. I am scared to offer you advice as it would probably be wrong.....sorry.

This must be really difficult for you .

I know you love her unconditionally anyway but if you perhaps tell her that you are only prepared to be there for her if she helps herself (by going to AA) do you think it might work?

Sorry I can't do or say anything else to help with this terrible situation.

I am so sorry you are going through this. It is a nightmare situation and very hard to deal with.

I have some experience of alcoholics - enough to know that they will only begin to address the problem once they have hit rock bottom and the only way is up. What I mean is, as long as there is any way for them to continue drinking they will.

The only safe place for an alcoholic to be, is in a place where they cannot drink. For some, AA is not the answer, and they need to be in a closed community for long enough to dry out. It takes a minimum of 6 weeks to dry out "chemically" and probably a further 3 years to get to a point where the addiction is under control. There is no "cure".

It is a long haul, and not usually one that can be managed by family, because the emotional ties are so strong.

I don't know where you are, but there are other charitable organisations that are a lot less expensive than the priory - though a lot less comfortable - maybe it is time to look for some alternatives.

Sorry to be so brutal, but perhaps it will help you to make some decisions.

I will do some research and come back.

X posts with lots of other people - it takes me so long to post...

www.al-anonuk.org.uk/

I'm so sorry to hear this and I hope you are ok.
I don't think there is one thing you can do for her. As hard as it sounds you need to step back and realise that only she can get herself out of this and until she wants to absolutely nothing will work.

She will have to hit rock bottom before (hopefully) finally really tryinhg to get out of it.

By giving her help adn somewhere to stay and all those (very lovely) things you have been doing for her, although very kind, have just enabled her to carry on her way of life.
You're right when you say there is no 'normal', not your normal anyway. Alcoholics find it very difficult to have or maintain relationships with people adn it's not becausde she doesn't care but because alcohol is the most important relationship to her.

I spoke to Al Anon and they told me that if they wanted to drink and carry on this life there was not one single thing yo ucan do to stop or change it.

I know it must be so hard for you adn it's easy for me to say step back and do nothing. If she wants somewhere to live-say no. If she wants money-say no. If she wants you to call her-say no because you don't condone her drinking, but I just don't see any other way.

I hope she finds her way in life and you stay strong for yourself and your family.

Hello Sal,

I've been through a similar thing with my schizophrenic XP.

It took me a looong time to accept that it was either him going down alone, or both of us, iyswim. I decided I wasn't prepared to give up my life for his awful, awful illness. Leaving was the hardest thing I've ever done, and it was a long and messy parting (no DCs, thank god).

Even now I think sometimes "....how could i have done such a cruel thing, abandoning him when he was so ill?..." but 15 years later I know I did the right thing, certainly for me and possibly for both of us.

What I'm trying to say is i think i have some idea of how you feel.

Its al-anon I think Avenap.

But, Salvolatile, I am so sorry you are going through this. Everyone is right, you can't make her recover! Maybe it is time to stop supporting her/enabling her. It sounds like your family have bent over backwards. I think you will all need support/advice in dealing with this awful situation. Your sister has my sympathy too. I'm sure this spiral of destruction is not what she would choose if she was not in the grip of this awful addiction.

Meant to say, contact Al Anon they will give you and your family support and guidance as well as some practical advice.

Would just like to send sympathy and reassurance. You have done your best. Your reward will be in heaven. Your experience puts all the other problems of mine and other MNetters in proportion.

Thanx for support so quik - it does help.... Al Anon have talked to us, and said that we ahve to 'let nature take its course' but it's hard when I can see that the end result may be a lifetime of guilt and regret as well as grief and I can't (atm, anyway) find a way of shifting that burden. Maybe you can't shift it, you just learn to live with it. 3littlefrogs, it's certainly true that she won't go to AA at all now; her last contact was when members of family and friends were driving her to meetings. The Priory offered free outpatient support for a year, but they asked her to leave the group after a couple of weeks because her return to addiction was endangering the recovery of others - and I agree with them. I would be really interested to hear of other closed communities that we could consider (we are in Kent btw) as there is next to nothing left to pay for another drying out session, but unless she is locked away she has no prospect of recovery that I can see and the NHS help has been non-existent.

so sorry, sal.

we cannot cure addicts, but some of us have to live with them (I do not mean literally in the same house, but as a friend or family member).

I have now learnt not to offer support that will enable them to carry on with their habit.

but always to offer love.

If you can continue to engage in just one activity with your sister, eg dog-walking as she suggests, then you are offering her some love. she will still piss you off and she may not get better but perhaps you can find a small space where you can enjoy each other.

I feel for you.

Have you tried addaction? They don't just help drug addicts.

This is such an awful situation to be in, I'm so sorry.

My mum was an alcoholic, she deteriorated rapidly over the course of a couple of years so the point where she was never sober (it was grim, she wasn't coherent, or continent for that matter...)

My sister, aunt and I used to visit her regularly, stay as long as we could bear (not long in my case), make sure she was as clean and safe as possible, then leave again.

We did try a private clinic, as well as several attempts through the NHS but nothing worked for very long - she made up her mind to drink and there was nothing we could do to stop that.

She died a month before I gave birth to my first DS, and looking back now I can honestly say that I don't feel any guilt about her death. I feel really sad about about the way she died, but also if I'm honest, some relief that we no longer have to go through all the anguish any more.

Sorry for the long 'me' post, not sure if it helps in any way but I really do sympathise with your horrible situation. You have to do what you can to protect your family and yourself - there is only so much you can do to help your sis until she decides she wants to help herself. And if she doesn't want to, that's her choice - so you have no reason to feel guilty about it. Thinking of you.x

I don't have any answers I'm afraid; but can lend a shoulder full of empathy as my SIL is an alcoholic whose drinking is brushed under the carpet by my brother and her immediate family. It is truly an awful illness and I've seen the damage it can do to families.

If she phones here drunk, I tend to get off the phone very quickly as things will turn nasty before long, so can relate to what policywonk says in her post.

You really shouldn't feel guilty about her as it seems like you have done all you can, and nothing will change for her unless she decides that she wants it to change. I do understand that that is easier said than done though.

Sorry that wasn't more helpful.

I googled "alcohol support kent" and got loads of sites. I think you need to accept that this is HER problem and only she can do anything about it. At the moment she is choosing to drink and there is nothing you can do except limit the damage to you and your family.

Getting in touch with al-anon is a good idea - to get support for YOU.

By all means print off and give her the information about services in your area - but realise that she will not open that particular door until ALL other doors are closed to her.

It seems harsh - but alcoholics do untold damage to those around them and you must protect yourself and your children. In the long run that is the only way you can help your sister.

i feel a lot of sympathy for you

i have the opposite my younger brother is an alocholic who has cut himself off from his brother and sisters

he was out of contact for a few years

at the beginning of last year he wrote me and my sister a letter which sounded as tho he had maybe got things together but nothing since

i assume he is alive

it is very tough

i dont know what i would do in your position

wishing you and your sister the best

x

Heartfelt sympathies, SV. Have experienced similar but I was only involved indirectly. I do remember the closest person to the alcoholic suffering horribly for it (so much so that when the alcoholic died - due to the alcohol - I secretly celebrated, because it meant that her daughter would no longer go through all kinds of hell). It seems to me that whilst the person who is an alcoholic is the one who wastes his/her life, it is those closest who get all the pain that's involved (the alcie always has the option of just blotting it out).

Sending you if that helps.

Hi and thanks for the responses everyone, but most of all: Mrs Wednesday please dont apologise for the 'me post' as it feels like a 'me too' post and that's great, actually....Squiffy the hug was great and 3little frogs - can you come and sit at my kitchen table and shake me firmly every time I start to wobble?