I need some real help, please: (Warning LONG) not sure if this is the right topic or not but I'm too tired

[SalVolatile]

...to name change and too tired to think. I have been putting off asking this for a while because I get too upset so I may not be able to reply to any answers iyswim .
Some old-timers may remember that (as callmemadam) I have posted before about my alcoholic younger sister, aged 40. She has been a heavy drinker/ alco for about 20 years and about 10 years ago lost her job in London, and her boyfriend/flat, and came down to live with my mum. She told anyone who would listen that she had come to 'look after mum' when the opposite was true and after several years of scenes and binges we eventually got her moved out in Jan 07. She moved in temporarily with me and my family with me policing her GP appointments, monitoring her Diazipam and trying to help her cut down. It didn't work, she got more secretive, lied continuously and moved into a flat. There she fell apart and after several weeks of hell and conduct too outrageous to mention, my father stepped in at the request of all the other siblings and put her into the Priory (£16K, not that anyone was counting). After she came out the Priory asked if she could come and stay with us again and attend outpatients. It took precisely 20 days out before she got plastered as soon as I left her alone. She spent the next few weeks semi conscious in front of various nephews and neices until we found her somewhere to live and asked her to leave. I told her that she had to choose between staying drunk and being part of our life. Since then (september) she has spiralled down and down, been sofasurfing, begging beds, telling her woes to anyone who will listen, sleeping with men who seem to offer her help, finally claimed benefit, telephoned to ask to borrow money, cashed in the ISA her dad bought her, stolen cash from my mum's house and called drunk begging me to help her as in "i'm the only one/if she doesn't have me she has no-one/ she loves me/ all she wants is a text from me/ why can't I just accept she's a drunk/why can't I call her from time to time."....................it goes on and on and on.

I've just had it again tonight - and I can't deal with her in my life unless she's sober, can't deal with the lies, the sobbing, the maudlin rambles, the hiding bottles, the conduct in front of children, the stealing or any of the rest of it, but the problem is I feel so so so bad about not being there for her any more and about rejecting her in this way, as I feel in my bones that she is not going to make it and I feel that I am part of what is going to happen and that I should somehow be able to intervene in a way that would stop it .

I'm sorry for the long ramble - I've never posted much about myself before, but I just don't know where to turn and I don't know who else to talk to about it. Should I just start again with her, meet up for dog walks (her request tonight) and try and pretend that a normal relationship is possible? She smells of alcohol most of the time, and 'normal' seems to have gone, and I find it impossible not to want to fight to get her into recovery and it seems that withholding my family is the only way to try and get her to a sense of what drink is costing her. ( but I know as I type that that isn't going to work, is is? ). She won't go to AA, she says it's not for her, and says she's 'trying', but has to have her first tin of Carlsberg at breakfast.

If you've read this far, thanks.

gonna bump as i cant help sorry your in this situation

Print off this thread and put it somewhere safe, but get it out and read it every time you feel you need to. I really do understand what you are going through.

Hi Sal, hope you are ok. What a tough one, but agree with the fact that by continually bailing her our you are enabling her to continue her lifestyle - but you may have to accept that she isn't capeable/doesn't want to change.

My story a little like MrsW, but my mother took years to drink herself to death and would always be pissed within 24 hours of coming out of the clinic.

Like MrsW I feel no guilt for her death, only sadness that I was robbed of my mother at a young age (I had lost both parents by 27) and that she wasn't the mother she could have been to me.

I did find Al Anon helpful and supportive.

I am also in Kent and know of a christian based charity in the Laddingford/Yalding area, I'll look them up (was a bit in the local paper about them) tomorrow and post.

There is also Libra who were helpful years back, there is a clinic in Wadhurst that my Mother used to stay in and there is always admission - not sectioning - to a mental health unit.

Addiction is one of the hardest illnesses to live with - as a sufferer, and as the family and friends of a sufferer.

You are damned if you do, and damned if you dont.

An addict lives in a bubble. That bubble encapsulates their life and blocks out everyone else. It holds in and surrounds them with only what concerns them then and there. The live for the next fix of whatever it is that their live centres around. And while their life falls to shit around them, the only thing that eases the pain of that is this fix.

Addicts feel that they cant help themselves. They feel that they need others to help them get out of the hole they are in. They transpose themselves into the lives of others, and believe that if only they had the same opportunity, love, family, friends, luck, money etc - they too could have a perfect life.

To them, life is beyond their control. Their life is shit because things happen to them, not because of what they do, or dont do. They live in a fairytale that never reaches the happy ending.

It's all part of the illness. Made worse by the side effects of the drug that forms their addiction.

Sal, there comes a point whereby you have to realise, for your own sanity that you can only do what you can do. Your sister is ill, and whilst she is family, and perhaps of some responsibility, you also have a family too. Sometimes the best course of action is to cut someone out of your life for their sake and for the sake of you and your family.

It doesnt make you a bad person. It makes you a decent person trying to make a decision with two negative scenarios to choose from that are beyond your control. The only control you have is how you choose to protect your family.

I'm sorry you are going through this.

VVVQV is right about detaching for your own sanity.

Here is the link I promised

The Kenward Trust

Message withdrawn

Hi I haven't got much time but wanted to say how sorry I was to read your post. Its horrible having an alcholic in the family. My stepdad drunk himself to death in the end without a thought (most of the time) for the impact on those around him.

If your sister won't go to AA then I think it might help you to go to Al-anon which is a support group for family and friends of alchoholics. THey will give you coping strategies to deal with what is happening. look here

You must stop enabling your sister to drink. Its her life and her choices. Its really hard but you need to cut her off from sources of finance, stop looking after her when she's drunk etc. Al anon will tell you more and support you in doing it. Its tough love but your sister has to deal with her own actions not have others give her a soft landing everytime.

Have to run. good luck

PS just realised I'm not posting under normal nickname - sorry

Thanks again everyone and concerned - it's just great you took the time to post! Thanks for the link Marmadukescarlet - I am about to click on it now. VVV - I don't know whether you have been through this but your description of my sister as an addict is so perfect I am going to circulate it to other family members as you have described her exactly .

A little bit. Nothing like you are going through though.

This was so difficult and pained to read. I do want to focus on an issue raised about control. This development is nothing you can do about to any sifnificant degree. It's come entirely out of your control and you're putting yourself under enormous and unfair pressure to judge yourself for receding in a perceived ability to assist her.

Not so long ago, my best friend literally drank himself to death, yet being the most beautiful man I ever knew. He destroyed himself from outside and inside, much like your sister is doing. His partner and I have spent time examining what we could have done to make things different. But, alcoholism a disease and we were not qualified to treat it.

I would humbly suggest that you ensure you protect you and yours from any corrosive effect of your sister, and only then use whatever resources you wish to use to assist her. Her repeated "relapses" indicates a poor prognosis.

am very very sorry you are suffering this.

sorry forgot to add in support of policywonk..

trying to 'support' her when she is drinknig is pointless and counterproductive. Her only concern then is to drink and she will sell your children's clothes (prob) if it means getting more alcohol.

I really don't have any knowledge in this area but just wanted to say how strong you all must be to deal with this. I'm so saddened to read about the heartache and sorrow that's gone into developing these coping strategies for dealing with family members. I hadn't really appreciated how corrosive to the wider family alcoholism can be.

SalVolatile, as I've said I have no experience so shouldn't really comment at all but your OP is so thoughtful and caring and sad. She's lucky to have had this much of you so far and however much of yourself you choose to give in the future.

Perhaps if you completely cut yourself off from your sister then she will reach her all-time lowest poinst and finally face up to her addiction? It could possibly be the best thing you ever do for her?

eekamouse - sounds good, and I'm sure it sometimes works. Problem though is that reaching the "lowest point" could mean her ending up choking on her own vomit, or wandering in front of a bus, or making herself vulnerable to death in some other way.

The total removal of assistance in those circs. would be a tough self-recrimination for Sal to accepet and deal with.

I know that Pan. But I think OP has exhausted all possibilities - I don't believe she can do anything to prevent her sister doing any of those things you mention, much as she clearly would love to.

My younger brother is an addict - I have had no contact at all with him for 2 years - I only know he is alive through my mother - he has never met my younger daughter
Do I feel pangs of guilt and sadness yes every day - but it is so much better for me and my family - he was dragging me down - the phone calls the rambling the ups and downs the abuse the not knowing how he was going to react the coming and going in my DD1's life making promises he never kept and on and on ....
I have no answers but I know for me the best thing was to cut contact completely

Pan I think your post was unfair - it is not Sal's responsibility she is not her sisters keeper....an addict cannot be forced to be helped not can they be "protected" - I await the phone call telling me my brother has killed himself - will I be sad yes heartbroken will I feel guilty no - I tried many times over many years at great cost to me (emotionally and financially) - but when I saw him manipulate my DD1 the same way I knew enough was enough

erm..I thought I was pretty clear about asserting clear boundaries. Nothing unfair there, I don't think.

I suppose I would like to get my head to where macdoodle is, so that I can accept the sadness if this disease kills her, without the wretched guilt that I would feel at present - that there must be something more I can do to persuade her to kick it, or that I can strengthen her with to fight it, or that I can provide her with to make success more likely. But there isn't, is there? So I think Pan is just recognising that at the moment I feel that abandoning her and getting tough might have a heavy price to pay in the future. I think both perspectives are correct.

Is this guilt part of you grieving in advance SalVolatile? Grieving for what might happen to her or what has already happened? I think that would be very reasonable thing to feel.

Can you reframe your guilt as grieving? Just recognise that what you experience is guilt is actually tremendous sadness and loss. It's no more pleasant than guilt but it means you don't carry a burden of "blame".

what you experience as guilt...

Sal, alcoholics can be very manipulative and are good at making everyone around them feel guilty.
That's how they get people to stick around so long.
It is very hard to cut the strings as of course you love her and have come to share a collective responsibility for her with your family.
I feel you need support to get through this. Talk to your family about how you are feeling

Please don't feel guilty for wanting to walk away, you have to look after your dh/children and no onme would blame you for cutting ties
Good Luck

Guess what - she's just turned up back in my (very sick) mother's house, having arrived there blasted (by car) at 9.30 this morning. Male she was staying with has chucked her out - can't say I blame him. I spoke to her last night; she was alternately maudlin and raving. Says she has a 'damaged brain' but its not so damaged that she doesn't know that mum won't chuck her out.....

Find myself wishing she'd just take a bottle of pills - and that has got to make me a pretty evil person too .....