To think my sister shouldn't support my bullying SIL?

[HurtingSister]

Long story short.....

I had a very difficult upbringing, along with my 2 sisters. Alcoholic father always, alcoholic mother from our teenage years, narcissistic mother, enabling father - you get the picture. Am no contact with my parents for 5 years now. My youngest sister became a drug addict and has had a really difficult life. I'm the eldest and there's two years between me and my next sister...let's call her Terri.

Terri is the person I'm wondering about in the title of this thread. Terri and me don't have a close relationship. We used to. But over time, we have drifted away and are not in communication much, bar the odd letter here and there. I find Terri difficult, demanding, quite like my mother in many ways and also quite bullyish. Hence the reason for our diminished contact.

I'm married and my husband's sister is horrible to me. She belittles me, looks down on me, makes nasty comments to me. I tried to talk to her about it, text her, sent her a bunch of flowers. This took a lot out of me as I'm a lot quieter than her by nature. I'll still chat to people no problem, it is just that she is loud and very conversation dominating. She ignored my text and flower efforts. I then, with the help of my counsellor, wrote her a letter and apologised if I was doing anything that might be upsetting her unbeknownst to myself and asked her if we could draw a line in the sand and move on together as a united family. Again, ignored. I was shocked, upset, embarrassed etc. I've had to be in her company since at family events and she continues to make snide remarks at me, talk badly of me behind my back, slag me off etc. She told my husband that I have "stolen" him from her. I find this to be a very odd statement, given she is 5 years older than him, went to boarding school and then to uni in another part of the country. So he hadn't lived with her since he was 8 years old. I have never, ever prevented him from seeing her or her family and in fact I have always encouraged him to. I try to act like normal, friendly and polite towards her at all times. She has also told my husband that I am a "bad daughter" for being no contact with my parents. Despite all of this, I can't think of a single thing I have ever done to this woman and I am completely flabbergasted by her hostility.

I told my sister Terri about my sister in law's behaviour and how upset I was by it. Two weeks later it was my sister in law's birthday. My sister Terri posted a lengthy birthday message to my sister in law (they don't even know each other too well) saying, "happiest of birthdays Susan. May you have the most wonderful birthday ever and I hope you get spoiled rotten. Lots of love, Terri xxxxxxx" and loads of heart emojis etc plastered all over it.

I was hurt by this as I thought Terri, as my sister, wouldn't champion someone who is hostile towards me. AIBU?

Grey rock the SIL and ignore the comments if you don't feel like you can call her out. I'd personally miss some in law gatherings and let your husband take them.

Tell your husband if he doesn't stick up for then you won't be around his sister anymore! The kids can see his family when your husband takes them!

Go NC with your sister. Block her on everything!

Just take a step back from this whole shit show.

Stop encouraging your husband to contact his family, shut your social media privacy settings right down, avoid meetups and leave everyone to it.

Your kids don't need to be the next generation to experience this toxic relationship. Go NC with your sister and SIL, it will probably do your husband some good too. Both of you can show your children what healthy family relationships look like without either of these women in your lives.

Get a new therapist. You don't owe anyone an apology. There is nothing wrong with being an introvert.

Sounds like you have more people to drop out, OP!

Your DS sounds horrible but you already knew that, hence the low contact. Time for NC?

You've tried with the SIL - she's not interested. Time to back off her, too. She deserves no more than a hello and goodbye from you at any function.

As for DH, he needs to understand that his inability to speak up to his DS has a big impact on you. It's really quite pathetic that he will just sit there and let her go at you when he knows you've done literally nothing wrong.

What is stopping you confronting SIL and telling her to do one? What are you afraid will happen? Can't get much worse can it? Your DH sounds like an absolute drip.

Your therapist sounds shite so first off I would definitely start looking around.

You deserve so much better than the people around you, including the loser husband.

Stop pleasing others and think of yourself.
Start detaching.
No contact whatsoever with inlaws and your toxic sister.
Look at what you can do to dump the loser husband and carve out a future with your children.
They deserve a mother who is treated well, not surrounded by toxic adults.

Detaching from the loser husband is always a good start and point blank refusing to have anything further to do with his side is a good start.
Same with your sister.
Look at your work and housing situation?
You had a hard start in life.
You deserve better, but only you can give it to yourself.

Sometimes, manners & being polite get you nowhere. Your SIL was unmoved by the letter & flowers. Now it's time to get dirty. Treat her & speak to her with exactly the same contempt she shows you. Bullies get away with being bullies because they rely on fear & intimidating tactics. Stand up to her & keep giving the awful cow a taste of her own medicine.

Thanks everyone. Appreciate all the responses.

your husband should be sticking up for you as that is his role, if never let any family member treat my partner like that, doesn’t matter if he has trauma, would he not protect his children either? I couldn’t respect someone that was ok with this. I wouldn’t go anywhere she would be and she would never be invited to any of my family events. Do you have her at your events/in your home?

I have a SIL like this. And the same lack of reaction from DH. Thankfully he has grown th f up a bit now. But, you know exactly what the issue is, she told you... you stole him from her. It's nothing to do with anything other than a weird codependency. DH has two sisters and mother and they have no lives eg relationships (no extended family, colleagues, neighbours, friends, partners, children), jobs, interests, outside of each other.

You are NOT the problem. She is and the way she was raised. You cannot change her and your DH will need to stand up to her for any significant change to happen. In the interim, absolutely avoid where possible and utterly ignore when not. Do not hand her the power to make you feel shite. You are worth more than that.

They are both equally horrible.
Why are you even speaking to them?
Cut them off. Completely. Block their numbers and their social media.
Ask your husband to do the same or not mention his sister to you ever again.
You tried to have a good relationship with them and failed. That's ok. There are horrible people out there but not everyone is the same.
Focus your energy and time on good friends/people and cut everyone toxic from your life. You will be so much happier.

I'd stop going to family events if someone was very hostile towards me, and my husband didn't have my back. Your husband is the problem here. I'd stop being nice to sil, because it's not working at all. She hates you, it doesn't matter why because you've done nothing wrong. Avoid her and ignore her if you see her. Don't send birthday cards/gifts, act like she doesn't exist.

I'm surprised your counsellor advised that letter. Is it a qualified counsellor?

The only way to deal with a bully is to stand up to them. I wouldn't bother in this case, just remove this woman from your life. Your useless DH can join you or GTF.

Get a different counsellor, your one sounds crap.

Why make all that effort grovelling to someone just in case you had done something that upset them?

It would have been more effective to work on having nothing to do with your SIL and being able to say 'oh fuck off' if you did have to spend time with her and she started on you.

Your counsellor seems to have encouraged your childhood training to make yourself the world's biggest doormat.

The issue was the bullshit advice of your counsellor. You challenge her, if not laugh in her face. You are dealing with two very damaged people, there is no sense or reasoning. You bring it to a head or you don't be in her company. You tell your DH that you will no longer be abused by her and especially not in front of your children. Stop behaving as though there isn't any issues. Block them on SM and if asked tell them straight, you don't want their negativity, they don't like you and you won't play their games.

with the help of my counsellor, wrote her a letter and apologised if I was doing anything that might be upsetting her unbeknownst to myself and asked her if we could draw a line in the sand and move on together as a united family. Again, ignored

you’ve got a counsellor problem too. You can’t change other people, only your response to them. Writing letters like this plays into her hands. It would be far more helpful to accept these two women are bad news and work on strategies to help you deal with them and what your boundary is for what is acceptable behaviour. You’ve done nothing wrong and I agree with everyone here who is saying cut them off or if you must be in the same room then grey rock. You have to defend yourself but your DH should be defending you too, his lack of spine has allowed his sister to bully you and if he can’t stand up to her then he should remove himself from her orbit too.

Your sister is doing “my enemy’s enemy is my friend”.

Picture in your mind what sad pathetic individuals they are and then ignore them - don’t go to social meet-ups, don’t reply to messages (or give bland non-committal responses) don’t give them flowers or gifts to make them like you. Remember the opposite of love is indifference, just put them at the back of your mind and ignore them as much as you can.

Don’t for fuck sake write letters of apology that can be shown over and over again to others.

The counselling you’ve had sound’s shit.

Seriously you need to stop what you’re doing. You’re kissing the SIL arse and are so far up it that you’re just making her behaviour worse. Why the hell do you need to apologise? You dont need her approval. She is a bitch twat. Ignore her from now on. Delete her from social media. Get your dh to tell her to fuxk off. As for your sister, she doesn’t like you so why confide in her as she’s just proved, probably not for the first time, that she’s a bitch too. Seriously, you’re making yourself look a right knob. Be more assertive and get a new therapist. Why wasted time and energy on these people. You can’t reason with stupid people. Grow a spine.

Toxic people in your family are the same as toxic people outside of your family. Sharing a gene pool doesn't give them power over you.
Look to your own behaviour. If you know that you have not caused any issues and others are treating you badly then you have a responsibility to yourself to rid yourself of the toxicity. You can't have a relationship with someone who doesn't value you, it's hard work, demoralising and pointless.
Stop sending messages and flowers, stop being a passive enabler of someone else's bad behaviour. Value yourself, because until you do, no-one else will!

Is your SIL married? Who is telling you she is talking behind your back?

I think the letter from the counsellor was a wrong idea. I think a letter only works if you have actually done something wrong. You were effectively grovelling and apologising for nothing. YOU must draw a line underneath it now, dont worry about your SIL. What is that saying, she is living in your head, rent free . Don't contact her again, stop trying to make conversation, you can easily ignore her in group family events. Any snarky comment, do an eye roll and an intake of breath as one would to a tiresome child.

As for your sister, personally, l think she posted that birthday wish to hurt you. You confided in her, why make such a public declaration? She could have messaged SIL privately. Perhaps she was trying to niggle you because she feels the pressure of you being non contact with your parents and sister - who knows.

I am not suggesting going non contact with your sister but definitely be more guarded. Do not talk to your sister about your SIL under any circumstances. Don't even tell her you are ignoring SIL from now on. Don't hand her a stick to beat you with.

Get a new counsellor.

Good luck OP

Op I think you went running after and seeking approval to be liked by SIL because of being rejected by your own family. She is so awful to you that you shouldn't even give her a second of yourself. Why do you want to be accepted by her so much.

Terri is a product of the upbringing. You can hardly expect any reasonable relationship from someone who was brought up by people who you are NC with. The dynamic is toxic and your therapist should have pointed that out to you. Seems like you need to go NC with Terri too. Don't hang on to hopes of a relationship with her just because she is the only one out of your family who seems the least toxic.

As for your Dh, seems like he also had a very dysfunctional upbringing and seeking his sister's approval in his own way that's reflected on you. You have control here even if you think you don't. Stop attending family functions, why do you need to? To please your dh, to please your IL? When do you do anything to please yourself?

That counsellor was so wrong. She has exposed you to more bullying.
Find another counsellor who can support you with building boundaries and keeping yourself safe from bullies.

I would go no contact. It’s easier said than done.
I went no contact with an abusive addict in my family and was put under enormous pressure to ‘make up’ by other family members.

This is where you need a good counsellor not some holy-Mary who wants you to apologise to your abuser for making them abuse you!!! 🙄

It worked out for me in the end.

Best wishes and take care of yourself. You don’t deserve any of this.

If you feel like you have to see her to keep up family contact just put your big pants on and call her bullying out in front of others when she does it. Hopefully she'll be embarrassed enough to stop. If not just don't go to anywhere she is and tell your husband he can either back you up when you stand up for yourself if he can see her alone.

Have you spoke to MIL or FIL about how you feel?

As for Terri just cut her off. She knew what she was doing and did it deliberately to hurt you. Why put up with it. Block and unfriend.

OP - they are horrible people, with their own issues. That's not your fault.

But as others say, you need to work on yourself to be less apologetic and more assertive. The bit that really sticks out to me is sending flowers to someone who is being horrible to you. Please please don't do that. Flowers are for thanking someone for being wonderful to you. Or apologising when you have been horrid. You were already being nice. And you were getting bullied. Sending flowers is utterly inappropriate.

At the moment, you are getting upset with the wrong people. You are literally angry with your sister for being nice to your bully, when you yourself have sent your bully flowers and apologetic letters. You are also angry at your husband for not standing up for you, while you are not standing up for you.

It is really really hard, and I say this with sympathy, because I have also been a massive over pleaser. I am better now but keep needing to work on this and catch myself.

I'd say that's a huge piece of work you need to do on you. Your husband probably needs to do the same in parallel. (People calling him a loser is cruel, but it does sound like you have hooked up with someone who is equally non-confrontational as you. This is much better than the alternative which frequently happens, of hooking up with someone who is similar to your abusive family members, so well done for that). But you both need to grow beyond your childhood roles now.

You have already progressed - distancing from your own family... and it can be a painful journey, often losing more people in your life as you change- but these changes will be for the better as you reinvent yourself and you will forge other relationships with non toxic people who treat you well... and when they don't, you will not tolerate it.