UK universities in trouble - why not add VAT to tuition?

[80smonster]

UK universities are in trouble, apparently many could close, why not charge VAT on tuition fees (for those that are financially viable)? Bridget Phillipson says they are autonomous institutions and won’t be given a public bail out - they should rely on their own resources:
https://www.theguardian.com/education/article/2024/aug/09/english-universities-face-autumn-tipping-point-as-financial-crisis-looms

YABU - don’t add the VAT
YANBU - add the VAT

I was basing it on my mums training which she did when i was a child. The university students spent less time on the wards and were supernumerary when doing so when compared to those at nursing college doing the other course. It caused a bit of resentment at the time. It wasnt that i assumed they 'did the odd shift" now, as the routes to nursing changed a lot and it was never the odd shift anyway. But it was less than those doing the other course.

But tge point I was really trying to make was people are very keen for different institutions to not award degrees becsuse there are too msny universities and people doing degrees, but I can't see that providing a non degree nursing course is going to cost less. They need to learn the same stuff and it's not as if the old nursing routes were free to deliver training.

I didn't say apprenticeships didn't exist. I said there weren't many. Even the nhs had stopped offering them in many areas because of the cost. Private employers don't have to offer them if they don't want to.

I know, I am a senior manager at an ITP

What is an ITP?

Independent Training Provider

Yes, a nurse apprenticeships would actually cost more which is why the nhs have stopped doing them in many places.

This is true, terms and conditions in private schools are often worse. Private schools struggle to recruit trained teachers too.

The financial trouble has arisen because fees are not inflation linked. They are now worth about £7k in terms of the year they were introduced. Central funding was removed for all but expensive science courses.

VAT wouldn’t go to the University but to the government.

Brexit and immigration rules are putting off foreign students and UK students can't afford to pay ridiculous tuition fees and start their working life with huge debts.

Adding more of financial burden on students is pointless...

One of the stupidest suggestions seen on mn for a while

They could start by reducing the vastly inflated salaries they pay to their vice chancellors.

Sure let's do that and maybe also remove the ability to get student loans either. That way we can ensure that only people with rich parents can get an education just like in the good old days!

Personnally, I would prefer that university education in Britain was free for all British citizens and everyone with permanent settlement status. Maybe then the British society would become more equal.

I agree vice chancellors are overpaid, (although probably not at the universities that are in dire straits) but even if they worked for free it wouldn't make much difference unless you think universities only need an extra 300k.

It used to be free. Society wasn’t more equal then, why would it be now?

@Fahran It was more equal in that more people were able to get a university education. But obviously you'd need to work on a lot of parameters in order to make the British society more equal.

@mytuppennyworth

This is true, terms and conditions in private schools are often worse. Private schools struggle to recruit trained teachers too.

Are you going to answer my question why you taught in the private sector if you despise it so much?

I’ll give you my answer - I resigned after less than six months because management of everyone and everything was shockingly bad. The students were lovely, but you find lovely students in any sector. I stayed until the end of the school year because I didn’t want to let the students down. Then I was fleet of foot out of there.

That's not true though.
When university was free (to the student) only a very small percentage of the population went to university.

Lots of reasons, social expectations,there were different expectations for women for a start. Teachers still did long courses away at college just not to degree level…

Inequality has increased considerably in the last 40-50 years.
Previously, there was opportunity for very academic and talented children to attend University for free or a specialist college or to get a good apprenticeship. Those opportunities are gone now, most have a choice of rich parents or debt.

It was much easier to get a job without going to university so inevitably fewer people applied. Women often didn't bother either if they wanted children as their career would be pretty much over as soon as they did. For those that were academic and did choose to go though it was no where near as expensive and students from an economically deprived background were often better off financially than they had been at home.

Lots of reasons, social expectations,there were different expectations for women for a start. Teachers still did long courses away at college just not to degree level…

Yes I know.

I was pointing out that huge numbers of people didn't go to university back when it was 'free' which was what the pp was suggesting.

Really? In my city the VC runs a university employing thousands, and has thousands of students. Do we not want to attract the very best? The finance director, with a turnover of £1pm a year years less than a senior manager at a bank (I know because a family member is one). If you want well run universities you need to be prepared to attract competent people.

Well run? The point of this thread is that most universities are on the verge of financial collapse. Institutions on the verge of financial collapse are not run by competent people.

Well run? The point of this thread is that most universities are on the verge of financial collapse. Institutions on the verge of financial collapse are not run by competent people.

The reason universities are in financial difficulty is primarily due to the government's decision not to raise tuition fees. You can't blame VCs for that decision.