Are my kids just harder than other peoples or AIBU and it’s just bad parenting on my part?!

[Hightideattheseaside]

On holiday in European country. It’s a one off long trip for most of the summer to mark an occasion. Meant to be a great epic adventure the kids would remember (and I’m sure they will). But it was also meant to be fun for us. However my kids (6 and 8) are just at each others throats all the time and when they are not fighting they are whinging and moaning. Even when they are playing nicely they are so loud and boisterous so it ends in tears anyway! Everyone else’s kids seems to be serene in comparison in the peaceful shady campsites. I feel like the awful brits that turn up and ruin everything. I constantly have to referee or listen to them moaning that they don’t want to go to the beach or kayaking (which they love by the way once we are there), or deal with the constant back chat from
the 8 year old. They can’t do anything I ask without complaint or me asking a million times/ losing my temper. I’m exhausted and ready to book a flight home.

Are some kids harder work than others? Or am I doing parenting wrong? We never give in to whinging. They can’t watch iPads when driving if they are rude or fighting, the littlest is now even losing a euro from his holiday money every time he called his sister dumb or stupid. But nothing helps!

Mine fight more in the summer. They are 12 and 14.

Are they having enough down time?

Mine (now 16 and 19) were never like this tbh. They got on well and were very easy behaviour-wise. Tbh I think that's just what they are like.

Mine are a mix but we try to be consistent so the one who gets at their sibling gets a firm talking to we don’t let it slip even on holiday. The one who moans we remind them of everything we’ve done, give them ideas for what they could do but make it clear we’re not having it.
We praise any good behaviour, reward them then, some of my friends do the opposite treat them to try and get better behaviour and I think that makes it worse.

I also agree with this. My 10 and 9 year olds aren’t allowed to talk to each other rudely/unkindly, it isn’t tolerated. Of course they disagree, but being outright rude or nasty or calling names is a complete no go.

Mine were never allowed to speak rudely to each other or bicker pointlessly, they would have been separated immediately . I can't bear listening to it . Never had a family holiday I didn't thoroughly enjoy, and our 25 year olds have just been away with us last weekend and still have a great time and really add to my enjoyment of the holiday

When you say ‘great epic adventure’ what are you actually doing and is it just a bit much? I think sometimes you can have a bit too much of a good thing. Even as an adult when I was travelling, I’d start to get a bit fractious at the 3 week point.

Sounds really hard

It's the reason why I put my eldest DD5 in holiday club for two days this week despite me being off work. Constantly fighting with her younger brother DS3 who retaliates by biting her at the moment. For my sanity so that I can parent better on the other days and to give DD a break from her brother I took the financial hit.

Jumping on but how do those of you who don’t tolerate name-calling respond when it happens? We don’t tolerate it and we think we make that very clear but ours still do it, and sanctions/consequences seem to have no effect.

Ours are 8 and 4, and DC1 is ND (ASD), which I don’t think helps as he lacks impulse control and also generally empathy so is very vocal in his dislike for DC2. DC2 is NT as far as we can tell but is starting to respond in kind (unsurprisingly). Mainly gone for divide and rule when we’re both around but not always practical to have two adults available!

I think an epic adventure with 6 and 8 year olds is a bit ambitious, especially if it’s a one off. Yes, there are people who take their kids trekking to Everest base camp or interrailing around Europe every holiday and their kids enjoy it and are used to it. But for most children all summer holiday is a long time to be away from home and they aren’t old enough to have the perspective needed to be grateful for new experiences and appreciate opportunities.

Plus it’s hot, you’re camping, no one has much personal space on these sorts of things and they’re out of routine and away from familiar comforts. And away from other friends and family- it’s a long time to be mainly interacting with your sibling.

I’d fully expect my kids to play up in those circumstances. If it’s not fun anymore then I’d just come home.

I also love the How To Talk… book.

When one calls the other a name it might help to give attention to the one who’s been insulted. “Oof, Christina, how does that feel, to be called a dumb-dumb?” The name-caller doesn’t get the parental attention a telling-off would give, and may listen (may!) to the effect of his words on his sibling’s feelings. I wouldn’t even follow it with a telling-off, I’d keep the focus on ‘Christina’/go quiet, trying to encourage them to talk it out more fruitfully.

(I’d expect this to take many, many goes, btw! It did with mine)

I second what people are saying about getting the basics right. We still do quiet time after lunch (reading, or whatever quiet solo activity is age appropriate) so we all get a break. DH naps! Try and keep mealtimes and bedtimes fairly regular. Plan in exercise every day.

Beyond that, I’ve always found it helpful to separate DC at the first sign of bickering, I’m zero tolerance about it and mine barely do it. I find chores in different places for them every time it starts.

For general whinging, I agree in advance with DH that we’ve both had enough and what we’ll do. Then we wait for the whinging to start, warn that they will miss whatever fun thing is happening that day if it happens again, and then enforce it. It only takes one missed beach trip (or whatever) being bored at the campsite while Mum or Dad reads or otherwise doesn’t engage (and their sibling gets to have the fun trip), to get across the idea that whinging isn’t worth it, IME. Maybe more for a very stubborn DC, but my DC still remember the couple of trips they missed and it was nearly a decade ago!

It sounds pretty normal to me (unfortunately).

Thank you all for your helpful comments. And solidarity to those experiencing similar over the summer hols. To try and answer a few questions. We did a eurocamp first which they loved and was much easier. But now in the van.

They are like this at home but spend less time together due to school hobbies etc. we don’t tolerate name calling or hitting at anytime hence the euro deductions. This has been enforced on both of them just the youngest does it more. Seems to have helped today. I have lost count of the stern talkings to a they have had. Both together and individually. I fought terribly with my brother and my parents didn’t do much about it. He destroyed my self esteem really so I actually find it triggering and try my best to help them navigate and see each others point of view and have empathy etc. i know a big part of the problem is my eldest is obsessed and possessive of me. Which makes the youngest want me. I try hard to give equal attention and do take them both off to do one on one. The eldest is also impossibly bossy to the younger one and he hates it, rightly so. I have tried everything I can think of to get her to stop and have alway told her I’m the parent you just need to worry about yourself, stern talking to and even pleading in a particularly low moment. But she just can’t seem to help herself. I do suspect she has adhd but that is a whole other thread and no idea how I will get help for that as school not interested.

I accept that this trip was over ambitious and I am working on lowering expectations. Hate to say it by DH is part of the problem as he keeps trying to suggest eating out or stopping at a cafe for a drink etc where they are then expecting to sit quietly. And it’s just too hard for them! We have just spent a wonderful few hours on the beach where they were free to be themselves in a familiar environment and no one argued. Go figure.

I want it on the record that my idea was to spend the same money on 10 days AI somewhere 5star but DH wanted more bang for his buck. His parents are a generation that wouldn’t dream of dropping 5k plus on a holiday so he feels he can’t. He didn’t go abroad until he was 18 with a friend. I wish I had tried to wear him down more but here we are. Quantity doesn’t equal quality and I think he is realising that.

Thanks again for the replies. There have been some useful suggestions.

I bet you a hundred quid you get back home and everyone else remembers it as the best. holiday. ever.

100% agree! Sibling arguments / fights can become a habit and it's one that shouldn't be allowed to take hold. There's a lot of sibling bullying that goes unchecked too in my opinion. Parents need to teach kids respect for each other right from the start, where the boundaries are, and how they can resolve their disputes. Lots of parents roll their eyes and moan about it but don't actively intervene.

Did they want to go for such a long trip? Do they enjoy camping?
Many kids miss their school friends and can’t handle the lack of privacy that comes with camping.

They love camping and we’re excited to go. We explained the whole itinerary to them. But agree they are probably unsettled.

This is my kids. To a T. It makes me feel like I shouldn't have become a mother because I obviously didn't raise them right despite doing everything I can to teach them manners and kindness and appreciation.

So they enjoyed the day on the beach and were better behaved?
Well do that.
This is your holiday too.
I think a separate issus is that your older child has developed controlling bossy habits.
Do not reward it.
She cannot become the child that is a teen that sits beside her mother when friends meet up until your friends blow you off.
You are going to have to find the energy and courage to be VERY FIRM.

Stop allowing her to boss your youngest, it will become a huge stain on their childhood.
This shit stays with children.

I know it stays as I have my own stain from my childhood. Will try harder to clamp it down. Also trying to remember to praise the positive behaviour more.

@SaulHudsonDavidJones I also feel like this sometimes. It can be so hard to keep trying when all efforts seem in vain. Stay strong.

More food, more exercise, more sleep.

Is it hot? Do you have aircon?

I have an ND child who is similar to your eldest. Believe me, some children are SO much harder than others, it's not always down to parenting!
People with ASD/ADHD do much better when they know what to expect and what they themselves need to do. So a routine may help with advance warning of any changes. And an environment like the beach where they can be themselves is perfect. Means they can concentrate on speaking nicely to each or whatever the focus is instead of having to worry about sitting still/being quiet etc as well.

Some summers are just a bit shite. I don't know if it's their age... last summer for us was awful for the bickering (age 9 and 12) this summer (so far) has been so lovely. Your kids don't sound particularly out of control, just really bloody annoying for you!! Maybe take them out separately or take 1 each to keep them apart a bit more. Last year I sat in the back of the car because both in the back was hell!!