Are my kids just harder than other peoples or AIBU and it’s just bad parenting on my part?!

[Hightideattheseaside]

On holiday in European country. It’s a one off long trip for most of the summer to mark an occasion. Meant to be a great epic adventure the kids would remember (and I’m sure they will). But it was also meant to be fun for us. However my kids (6 and 8) are just at each others throats all the time and when they are not fighting they are whinging and moaning. Even when they are playing nicely they are so loud and boisterous so it ends in tears anyway! Everyone else’s kids seems to be serene in comparison in the peaceful shady campsites. I feel like the awful brits that turn up and ruin everything. I constantly have to referee or listen to them moaning that they don’t want to go to the beach or kayaking (which they love by the way once we are there), or deal with the constant back chat from
the 8 year old. They can’t do anything I ask without complaint or me asking a million times/ losing my temper. I’m exhausted and ready to book a flight home.

Are some kids harder work than others? Or am I doing parenting wrong? We never give in to whinging. They can’t watch iPads when driving if they are rude or fighting, the littlest is now even losing a euro from his holiday money every time he called his sister dumb or stupid. But nothing helps!

Forgot to say I have limited signal so I will come back and read replies (if I get any!), but may take a while.

My two are almost 5 and 8 and the squabbling this summer has been so intense. I don't know why. The eldest is a girl and the youngest is a boy. She orders him around too much, he doesn't comply. They scream at each other. He decides to play some game with her and gets too rough, she wails. They are constant in asking for things and whinging and it is all just a lot! We've used minimal holiday camps this summer for childcare and juggled work a lot but in the October holidays I will schedule more childcare. They are better when we are out and doing activities but without that its arghhhh. They both love the holiday camps etc and playing with kids own ages so the part of me that has mum guilt about them going is eased. Good luck, you are not alone. We are not terrible parents, just parents juggling a lot with kids in modern times. If anyone says 'back in my day the kids just got on with it' then yes that may be true but sending kids off to play in fields or roam woods at 8 and 5 on their own would be frowned upon now.

A long holiday is hard going. They’re out of any kind of routine, don’t have home comforts, and likely don’t have the language or skills yet to fully identify how they’re feeling emotionally about this, or convey it - so instead it comes out as frustrating and bickering etc. You say you’re exhausted - amplify that by x amount and you’re probably at your kids level of this (especially as you’re the adult and will have organised this, be aware of schedules and plans in advance, where I imagine things are much less so for them, so they will have feelings of lack of control etc). All of this contributes to feeling out of sorts.

I would try and take a step back from the frustration if the moment, ground yourself, and try and see what’s beneath the behaviours that are annoying you, so you can help the kids navigate their emotions a bit better, and hopefully feel more empathy and compassion for them as they’re struggling (and loads of self compassion for yourself, as it is HARD navigating this stuff, especially when you’ll also have all these ideals in your head about how you wanting this holiday to go, and no doubt feel some discomfort and resentment at the fact that it’s not perfect and idyllic). I don’t know what the practical answer is, besides seeing what you can do to take the pressure off a little if you’ve been super busy with activities. Sometimes we just need some down time, especially if it’s a long break and you’ve been travelling a lot.

I hope you can salvage your break, it sounds like a wonderful trip. It’s just definitely hard going when travelling with kids ❤️

Some kids are harder work than others.

Some ages are harder work than others.

Some siblings never really get along, although others actually annoy the bickering as it's familiar.

I had twins. They swopped who was harder work but never stopped bickering and they are 23 now.

I've found the book "how to talk so kids will listen..." has really helped me to better manage the exact same sort of situations, I highly recommend and you can listen to it as an audiobook.

Edit: Kids change a lot and what I've noticed is I sometimes get into a rut as something that used to work isn't working any more. I find then the shouting and punishments gradually increase > kids behaviour gets worse > vicious cycle. That book has really helped me to reset and parent the way I want to on a few occasions!

This sounds like my 3 and 5 year old, sigh. It's exhausting.

Sounds like they're bored. Is there nothing to keep them occupied in the area?

In my limited experience parents often don’t do enough to maintain boundaries between siblings. The ones I see who fight and disagree all the time have parents with a kind of laissez-faire approach to their children’s relationship with each other.

My sister and I fought horribly and our mum did nothing to help us navigate the difficulties we had.

Is it possible that you've got unrealistic expectations of your 6 and 8 year olds? You may have imagined a peaceful and serene holiday but it ain't happening because your children are 6 and 8... It may take a few days for them to settle down and adapt to their new surroundings.

I didn't give in to whinging either, but admit to relaxing the rules a bit when on holiday; I would have given mine the iPads to shut 'em up; who wants to be in a car with fighting children? I wouldn't 'fine' them for name-calling; at some point he is going to be in negative funds if he carries on. I might have withheld the odd ice cream if it got really bad.

Good luck!

It sounds like you are doing the right things. Sometimes there isn’t much you can do to prevent bickering. I didn’t like my sibling at all growing up as I felt that I was doing all the right things without any recognition from parents, whilst he did what he wanted and got treated the same. Could there be any element of that causing the issues?

Other than that, I would have a long hard chat with them about gratitude, so that they know it isn’t acceptable to complain about doing fun activities.

I think people underestimate the affect being dropped in a new culture and an unfamiliar language has as well. Maybe French kids (eg) are better behaved in France - the language, culture, signage, people, and customs are all familiar! Kids will often take their feelings off discomfort out on siblings because it's safe isn't it. That's not to say it's not worthwhile taking kids abroad - it ABSOLUTELY is - but part of the reason is worthwhile is because it's not necessarily easy.

As an aside there's no way I would punish the kids by reducing screen time in the car - that's a punishment for you more than them!!

In short no I don't think it's you.

I've found this to be true as well. It's really important to set rules about how they talk to each other and tell them it's not acceptable to speak rudely or angrily.
Teach them how to express themselves well without the squabbling.
Look at what their triggers are and help them to deal with that. Is it boredom? Is one sibling more demanding than the other? Does one sibling get more attention than the other?
Don't always get involved and get them to sort it out.
If all else is failing, demand that they not speak to each other at all. Every time they try, remind them they're not yo speak to each other.
Hopefully they'll realise that they do want to speak to each other and be friends or you'll get some peace and quiet.

For my DC most of the time when behaviour slips it's due to the basics, tiredness/lack of sleep, hunger, lack of exercise. So I always focus on those first and 90% of the time that does the trick.

That's not how it presents though, DC don't say I'm tired/hungry/need some exercise, they just become irritable and annoying and emotional.

If you can maintain some kind of routine that will probably help.

Also agree that parents need to help siblings to navigate their relationship.

Are you communicating your plans? Maybe your itinerary wasn't what they were expecting so are reacting to it. I'd talk to them the day before and explain what is happening the next day and when. Also build in and highlight to them when there is down time to do somewhat they want, even if that is absolutely nothing. It can be hard finishing school for the year and being exhausted, then having a full on holiday itinerary in the heat perhaps which is also tiring.

I saw a really good meme the other day about holidaying with kids. Same shit - different location. Holidaying with kids is a bloody nightmare- I have ended up hating every holiday we have gone on - my son is autistic so being out of routine is really hard for him but like you say it is the constant arguing - camping is really really hard because you are still cooking cleaning etc just in a sunny/rainy field. The food is different and if you are abroad the kids moan because it is too hot. We did 2 camping holidays in France when the kids were small. Most kids were sat there playing uno beautifully or reading books - mine always fought and said they were bored. A year after this we did a butlins holiday and it was a completely different experience they were so busy watching the entertainment and taking part in organised activities that they hardly fought at all. A lot of people said to us how awful for us having to go to butlins and we should go where we want to go and not let the kids dictate but honesty if the kids are happy so are we. However we couldn't bear butlins for another year so are doing an AI in Spain next week and just hoping that they will be so busy they won't have time to bicker ..... My auntie gave me a bit of parenting advice and that was holidaying with kids is a nightmare so don't feel the pressure to take them away- kids are teens now so hoping an AI resort with lots to do will be good. I would never ever do camping or self catering with children again. I just found when they are little and you are away if you are constantly doing things with them you don't get a break and it is utterly exhausting - not my idea of fun at all but some people love it!

No it's not you. Holidays with kids are hard work. I'm on one now with two young teenagers and they are just moaning all the time. The older of the two looks at us with such disdain all the time. It's actually soul destroying after saving all year for this

Holidays are exhausting and unsettling for kids, especially an epic journey. Are they getting enough down time? Or is how they’re behaving their normal behaviour?

You’re camping for a long period of time with two small kids in a different country? What did you expect? Holidays with small children are shite at the best of times, you have to manage your expectations better tbh

I think some siblings get on great and some don't. My brother and I hated each other, in our 30s/40s now and we still do! My cousin has 4 girls in one bedroom and they're the best of friends and the most polite and well behaved children you've ever met and have been since toddlers, she runs a tight ship! So I suppose to answer your question maybe a bit of both? If you have children who are more boisterous and loud you have to up the parenting.

We really enjoy our family holidays. Our two are 13 and 16 and still want to go away with us. We never go for longer than two weeks and always ask their opinions on location and activities. Always lots of pool time built in. We were really adventurous before DC but our kids are poor sleepers so we haven’t gone beyond Europe with them. Had lovely camping/Eurocamp trips with city breaks and theme park visits tacked on. Looking forward to a proper road trip with DH once we can leave the kids at home.

I agree that some children are very hard work.
I wouldn't tolerate them being unkind or speaking poorly to each other.

I would separate them, can you do that?
Each take a child an speak very firmly to them and keep them away from each other.

I also would separate them in the accommodation so that they are not sharing a room..

Tell them they are not allowed to speak to each other at all, not one word, as they are too loud and too rude.

Police it ruthlessly and it might just make them aware of how they speak to each other.

Could you take them away for a few days and give them a right dose of firm behaviour.

Children like this are awful to parent and be around, the only thing you can do is talk to them, explain how you expect them to behave, do not tolerate it, seperate them and police them ruthlessly.

Definitely no treats at all while they behave poorly, but likewise reward if you see positive change.

How to take to children is a good book.
Address this now as it will get worse as positions become entrenched and the teen years approach.

TBH a week is enough for me ,and DC are in their 30s . I mean they are off on hols with partners now! I still find it hard going ,being away from home ,pets friends ,and so on .My own DC were happier when at swimming ,or theme parks TBH. Maybe a week or so next time and days out at home may help

So are they like this at home? I would expect the 8 year old to be slowly heading out of the constant moaning stage. So if they are difficult at home, then the holiday will compound that.
The other thing about holidays is the lack of routine. I have also stuck to some basic routine in the holidays so kids know what to expect. So you can say, breakfast at roughly this time, then we will have beach/pool time, we are going to come in to have lunch and some quiet time. You can watch some TV. Then we are going to go kayaking/sight seeing/whatever. Then we'll have an icecream, then X activity, then come back to the room, get changed and a bit of quiet time before dinner, and then maybe a walk before bedtime. Something like this?
And just stick to it even if they are moaning and whining and they will settle into a new routine. They are not babies so they will have a basic sense of time, so you have to nudge them into a new routine.

The calling names etc is the one that concerns me. I assume that's not a holiday thing. The kindness/civility bit is the one thing I am really strict about. Sometimes we don't get on with our siblings, they might be very different people, but they are family, and we have to be polite. So let some of the low level whinging etc pass, and I would come down hard on that stuff.