Southport, riots and classism on MN - middle class woman started the rumours

[twodowntwotogo]

One aspect of MN that I find tiresome and upsetting is the classism, for example describing someone's taste as 'chavvy', and then the multiple posts characterising the riots as not happening in 'nice' places, and the rioters as uneducated, oiks, etc.

Today the Times is carrying an article about the instigator of the unrest:
'The woman accused of being first to post a false Muslim name for the suspect is the managing director of a clothing company. The mother of three in her mid-fifties enjoys walking, is married to an artist and counts an actor among her children. The family live in a £1.5 million farmhouse in the rural north.'

Non-paywall version here: <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/2024.08.07-184043/www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/mother-of-three-sparked-havoc-with-false-claim-about-southport-suspect-bd6kkzgpn#selection-2207.0-2207.307" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://archive.ph/2024.08.07-184043/www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/mother-of-three-sparked-havoc-with-false-claim-about-southport-suspect-bd6kkzgpn#selection-2207.0-2207.307

So AIBU to want MN posters to dial down the classism and stop jumping to conclusions and understand that Farage and BoJo and countless other middle/upper class people may not be out on the streets setting bins on fire, but often provide the spark through inflammatory speech?

Is this not a refined version of “you can’t say anything these days”?

Zero patience on this. The laws that apply here are decades old. Not new.

I actually think the blame has been fairly spread on here and elsewhere.

There’s wide recognition that people like Farage, Andrew Tate and Laurence Fox (the poor woman’s Oswald Mosley) not to mention the world’s richest man played a pivotal role in instigating this shit show. I think this has been widely commented on.

But there’s no getting away from the fact that the people at the front line of this unedifying spectacle: the morons trying to set fire to asylum centres, hurling themselves into bins and other deeply unconstructive and undignified behaviours were for the most part economically, intellectually and aesthetically challenged individuals. They were not the shock troops of revolution they were the dregs of society.

I don’t think the phrase “working class” is accurate either. Anyone with any genuine work ethic or sense of self preservation or community would know that that sort of behaviour wasn’t going to end well. These people were an underclass, manipulated by their supposed “superiors” (as they saw it).

Its very noticeable that over the decades wealthy, well connected and well educated right wing people have whipped up unrest by convincing less well educated and intelligent right wing people to do their dirty work for them and then walked away wiping their hands. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to point out that these people who carried out the riots were neither financially privileged or blessed with social capital or intelligence. Surely that’s the point?

They are trying to make out that the UK is a dictatorship akin to North Korea, with photoshopped pictures of Keir Starmer as Kim Jong Un.

I see near zero coverage of Lucy Connolly who has been remanded until 2 September. Why we don’t get to know what her position is I would love to know given everyone else involved is subject to open court.

She wasn't required to enter a plea

No. She can enter it at the outset in the Crown Court. But I guess Mrs Connolly will be saying “not guilty” after all that.

I did not realize that someone has already been jailed for retweeting Connolly’s remarks.

I suppose she will have a good lawyer but even then…

They are trying to make out that the UK is a dictatorship akin to North Korea, with photoshopped pictures of Keir Starmer as Kim Jong Un.

At the V&A Mrs Thatcher was lined up next to Hitler as examples of modern villains. Tory MPs have been described as fascists.
It happens on both sides of the political divide.

Yes very true

It all feels a bit medieval, in a disgruntled Lord followed by toothless villagers picking up pitchforks to march on London, way.

@Whenwillitgetwarm that’s pretty much what it was. Lumpenproletariat being manipulated by unscrupulous toffs.

Not surprising! Many people are gullible and are easily manipulated by the better off classes. It's what has kept many institutions going without much questioning. The Royal Family and their entourage and the hereditary peers in the House of Lords being two such institutions that seem able to exist without the scrutiny others would face, or indeed 'qualifications' to hold such elevated positions beyond 'right of birth'.
Look at the popular press who uphold these 'privileges' without question, and fuel unquestioning people with the skewed version of 'truth'.The Daily Mail is a case in point.
Robinson is using an Irish passport and fled to Cyprus to get away from the riots he was agitating for. (Ireland being in the EU he did not want us to be part of). Farage, Braverman, Jenrick, Patel, safely tucked away in their nice abodes having fuelled the mobs with incendiary language.
Frankly, if you asked the rioters who these people were they probably couldn't tell you - but they could parrot their phrases 'two tier policing', 'stop the boats' etc. I bet many of them never set foot in a polling station to register their concern legitimately.

History shows this was always the case, the 'masses' are easily roused.

The rioting mob are thugs. They are criminals. They do deserve imprisonment. They are a threat to the peace of the country. I think some of the names they are being called (classist if you like) are pretty moderate given the havoc they have wrecked.

There is a petition on Change.Org about Ms Spofforth

I disagree that the rioters are working class. Apparently 70% of them have criminal convictions already - they don't represent the working class community I grew up in.

We'd call those sorts of people chavs. No work ethic and a right pain in the arse to the community they live in no doubt.

Absolutely there are people posting shit online and they should be punished. But I'm willing to bet loads of the rioters saw it all kicking off and didn't want to miss out. Even better if you can have a go at the police at the same time.

With the 2011 riots, loads of those convicted outside of London had never even heard of Mark Duggan. They just saw it kicking off and wanted to join in.

@AnneElliott if the majority of the rioters already have a previous conviction, does this mean they will receive a linger sentence this time?

Also, would any of the rioters who are not British nationals be deported to their country of origin after they complete their sentence? I believe that Bernie Spofforth is a South African national living in Britain.

Will Spofforth face any charges for her actions I wonder.

She was the first to claim the falsehoods about asylum seeker and a fictitious Moslem-sounding name.

Spofforth has been arrested so we'll have ro wait and see. No doubt she has hired the best legal team as she is a millionaire with a business in the UK.

Yes I believe so @ImikSiMik . Previous convictions will be taken into account although the sentences being given out currently are much harder than those not related to the riots.

On foreign national it depends on their status. If they have citizenship then it's highly unlikely that they'll be issued with a deportation order. If they have ILR then it depends on the length of the sentence they get. Part of their criminal punishment can be a deportation order if the prosecution seek that but also the Home Office can issue a notice to deport based on the criminal conviction received even if not asked for or ordered by the trial judge.

If they have more limited leave then almost certainly it will be cancelled if convicted.

@AnneElliott and of course the home secretary can strip a dual citizen of their UK citizenship, although I doubt very much a Labour home secretary would do that.

Deportation order are automatic for all foreign citizens who have received a custodial sentence of 12 months or more.

I think deportations are automatically considered, and not automatic per se. There are cases when it's not appropriate to pursue deportations and certainly while at immigration I took decisions of that nature.

@AnneElliott yes, I think the legislation is that the secretary of state must consider deportation for any convict with a longer than 12 month sentence. This research briefing has more info: https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cdp-2024-0023/

Elon Musk is South African
Spofforth is South African (immigrant to UK)
Robinson has been already arrested as an illegal immigrant (using someone else's passport)
Robinson has a Republic of Ireland Passport (filled it in fraudulently claiming he was born in Ireland when he was in fact born in England)
Farage - agitating to leave the European Union while drawing thousands of pounds in salary from them while working there

You couldn't make it up - the hordes going to riot inspired by foreigners, hypocrite's and an illegal migrant. Dumb doesn't describe these rioters and looters enough.

@StoneofDestiny they don't think they are immigrants because they are white, that's what it boils down to. They're top of the pecking order in their twisted little heads.

Robinson's mum is Irish who came over to work so an economic migrant. Bloody madness.

Indeed - and judging by the surnames of some of the rioting thugs I am guessing their grandparent/parents are Irish migrants. You are correct of course - white doesn’t appear to count in migrant stakes in some dimwits heads. Mince for brains