NHS band 8b

[Northfemale]

So

i know NHS band 8’s can’t claim OT payment- what be about lieu time?

AIBU that when working mon to Fri- having to travel nearly 7 hrs Sunday daytime and stay overnight for team meeting mon/tues I should get some time back?

I’ve asked the Q and been told essentially tough -travel in my own time. Having already done the travel and worked all the way down I’m feeling rather annoyed! Why should I give up my Sunday?
I accept starting early/ finishing late. This was giving up a rest day - or get up 4am…

thoughts - pls….?

Why was your team meeting 7 hours from where you live? I presume it was at the team base, and you wfh most of the time and live a distance from the trust you work for? If this is the case, then no you would not get TOIL. However, if the meeting was an away day at a location 7 hours from the trust base, then yes you could claim it.

I think some of this is expected (wrongly) within the nhs. If I go on a course, the trust pays the fees but I have to pay for my travel and my hotel, and do that travel in my own time. My husband works for a private company and all his hotels and travel are paid for, and his food whilst away, and he gets TOIL if had to travel in his own time.

I'm not sure where this view has come from but I can guarantee from personal experience of my own Trust that is absolutely not the case. I regularly work 15-20 hours per week above my contracted hours as a senior manager. Also the managers you see leaving at 5pm will most likely be logging on from home each evening for an hour or two to catch up on work they didn't ha e time to do during the working day.

If you are 8B you could still claim this at basic rate rather than as OT rate. Agenda for change stipulates that overtime shouldn't be paid to band 8 and above but it will still allow for a payment of basic hourly rate for additional hours worked rather than at time and a half rate.

I don’t know the rules but you should definitely get TOIL in principle. My companies policy is it counts as working hours if it’s longer than travel I normally do to the office. So if I do a two hour journey the first hour isn’t counted which I think is fair. If I had moved really far from the office and it took me 5 hours to get there then that would be my own fault for moving and I wouldn’t get that time back to come in. Also they wouldn’t let us travel on a Sunday and I wouldn’t agree to do that anyway unless it was super exceptional and something that would really benefit me like a cpd thing I had asked to do.

The idea that if you’re office based /higher paid you should just suck it up is shit. It’s not a race to the bottom.

I wonder how many with an issue with the OP’s 8B salary (majority women) agree with the Dr's pay rise (mainly men)??

I am a band 8A there service needed me to work overtime that I financially did not need to work but did for the service and my own MH to reduce the pressure they would not pay me at my band 8A rate.

Yet weekend waiting list initiative clinics Dr's on just undrer twicw my salary paid handsomely to reduced waits that don’t exist in their private practises. Not conflict of interest there either hey!!

It is why people want to leave and there is a two-tier system within a public service riddled with the patriarchy !!

With London weighting, possibly. But the range is approx £58-£67 for the rest of the country. I think you read the 8c band.

Yes, admitted my error earlier, did exactly that!
Ringing optician at 9am!

Some teams are national. There’s a locality base and a central base, which is often London.

Just take the time back yourself without a fuss. An hour or so at a time.

Most people have to travel to/from work in their own time.

If you are remote working, surely you would've realised that you would need to go to a base/office/Trust as part of that job.

If you took this job knowing that the base is 7 hrs travel time away, that is your own doing.

Golly, a lot of resentment for someone who is likely highly skilled to be working at 8b!

More information needed though. It’s one thing if your work base moved and they are expecting you to travel long distance for a meeting, another if you moved or took a job long distance from the base!

I do agree to a level that in management the hours are more flexible and we work more hours than we are paid for but there should be a limit!

And to the poster that talked about management leaving at 5pm…..I wish! I come in early, stay late, get contacted at weekends, it has broken me! And I’m not as senior as the original poster! I’m going back to clinical work. Anyone that thinks NHS management is easy should give it a go!

It depends. When you accepted the role, did you know that there would be an expectation to travel for team meetings? The offer stage would have been the time to discuss the travel and toil ( if you knew about it). How often do you have to make the journey? A few times a year is different than every week for example. The nhs is country wide so can you not move to a job that doesn’t have 7 hours travel for a meeting?

If the nhs wasn't frittering money on all these "highly skilled" manger jobs there would be more money for other staff.

It depends why your travelling so far. If you've taken a job or moved since that is that far away then that's on you. If they've moved the office or site then that's on them I'd think

@tuttuttutt more money but no one to guide how it is spent or run the service. You want the best in the public services you have to pay for it. OP why not just travel on the Monday and ask for the meeting to be in the afternoon.

I'm the same band in the NHS, I don't claim toil/ overtime etc. it's part of the role I feel.

However, that said I wouldn't work on the way if it was a Sunday and I can only assume you work remotely faraway from your base to have to travel that far to attend a team meeting.

You could get up at 4am, that's what my DH did when he had to be in London on a Monday. Yes it's a pain in the arse but better than losing a whole day off ?
How often are you expected to do this ? once a week ? once a month ? once in a blue moon ?

Oh sod off, you think the NHS doesn't need skilled management? That it runs it's fucking self.

The banding and pay relevance isn't the point here.
It's the 7 hour issue!!!
Why!???
That's what needs sorted not the TOIL
Madness

The OP hasn't said she's a manager. She might be something like a senior clinical scientist or nurse practitioner.

And even if she is a manager, hospitals don't run themselves and what the NHS pays senior management is the sort of money that half of MN thinks is just about sufficient for a graduate trainee role.

Of course it doesn't.
However NHS staff have become so disillusioned by management .

8b is 60-70k and yes I'd be putting in a TOIL claim at that level.

Travel time isn’t accounted for as TOIL etc in the NHS at those pay bands. It’s expected that you must get yourself to wherever you need to go at your own expense and on your own time. (I am the same pay band and have to do the same to attend conferences etc)

This is more evidence of a them and us culture in the NHS. Clinicians get their time paid for but highly skilled senior staff don't, that doesn't seem right to me.

I have a family member V high up... Lots of travel outside of 9-5 to conferences etc. Also logs on most days from home/evenings etc and is on call for emergencies. No TOIL. But pay reflects this commitment