Maximizing chances of GCSE grades at 8/9 is essential

[Elizo]

Interested in views:

A child is heading for 7-9s. In a school where 8s/9s not v common.

Two views/ options:

Getting high numbers of 8s/9s is essential for top unis. Tutors/ work flat out and maximize chances of 8s and 9s. YANBU

or

7s are great so as long as they are on the cards no need to stress. YABU

They're important because they afford bragging rights to parents.

GCSEs are the key to getting into 6th form. Your A Levels are the key to getting into university.

That's it.

@EnidSpyton Do you know how bloody difficult it is to get a D of E Gold? It's only achieved by about a tenth of the students who get a Bronze, because it's incredibly challenging. The organisation provides financial support to those unable to pay - so it's not 'elitist' or 'middle class' - a good proportion of participants come from underprivileged backgrounds.

Do you have a link to stats on demographics of awardees? I’ve been looking but can’t find them.

She absolutely did. She was referring to receiving CVs for students applying for a year in industry, not applying to university, so a different context. Based on looking at their achievements on their CVs alone, she said: 'All those things just told us they were from middle class families and nothing about their abilities or interest in their subject.'

I'd say that was writing off these young people's achievements as pointless, if, as an employer, she couldn't be bothered to think about what those qualifications may say about those young people and their interests, and instead just lumped them together as 'things middle class children do'.

Yes. I have 10 GCSEs grades A and B (way before A*s were a thing). Neither my PGCE provider (Russell Group university) nor any school have ever cared what grades I have in any of them other than Maths and English.

https://www.dofe.org/thelatest/annual-statistics-2024/#:~:text=The%20DofE%20is%20continuing%20to,their%20Award%20in%202023%2F24.

Oxford for anything and, Medicine need best grades. And some Law courses. Oh and some Engineering. So yes, get 8/9s if can.

@TotHappy yes it is. The vast majority applying to Oxbridge will have very high GCSEs, and they do stipulate minimum grades in some subjects. All things being equal, why would they choose student A with 6s and 7s over student B with 8/9s? Of course there are always exceptions, but generally for the top tier unis GCSEs count.
However OP, 7-9s are excellent GCSEs.

But surely universities only have GCSEs to go on so the higher the grade the better. At the time of application, A level grades will only be predicted

This is such a bizzare comment
what kind of job is looking at gcse grades?
why would a recruiting manager have any idea whether a random secondary school is considered good or not?
what a strange, insular take on a method introduced to increase diversity and reduce bias for job applicants.

So only 10% of participants come from areas that are in the 30% most deprived category? That’s not really what I would call a “good proportion”. (And no numbers on those who actually complete an award, which suggests such figures are not even as good as that.)

That makes it look very much like the middle class indicator suggested.

https://www.dofe.org/statistics/

In 2023/24 -

15% of participants are experiencing poverty.
26.7% of participants are from minority ethnic backgrounds.
7.8% have additional needs.

I would say those statistics show a good proportion of diversity and inclusion for an entirely voluntary award that isn't going to appeal to every child. For those participants not in the 15% experiencing poverty, there is no further information about their family circumstances. The 85% of children participating who aren't living in poverty aren't all going to be middle class.

I might also add that it only costs £28 to apply for your Bronze award and any additional expenses on top of that will be minimal. Many schools/orgs who participate access funding from the D of E to pay for those additional expenses for those who need it. It's therefore hardly an 'exclusive' award. The D of E makes it easy - and is working hard to make it even easier - for any child who wants to, to participate.

I'd say that was writing off these young people's achievements as pointless, if, as an employer, she couldn't be bothered to think about what those qualifications may say about those young people and their interests, and instead just lumped them together as 'things middle class children do'.

And if you get 50 identical applications from the same university how are you suppose to distinguish between them? It's impossible. And it absolutely is 'things middle class children do', it's that all important cultural capital that families with less money can't afford to replicate.

That's why universities want personal statements to be about super-curricular activities not extra curricular activities and are changing them again next year. And why employers don't ask about hobbies in interviews.

Presumably you ask them to actually write an application for the job? It's absurd, surely, to shortlist on a CV alone, as if everyone who applies has identical qualifications - as you claim - then you'd have to shortlist them all for interview.

For most children, their 'super curricular' activities are their extracurricular activities. Making this distinction is largely pointless. Guess what, if I'm applying for an English degree, then probably the things I like doing are reading and going to the theatre and doing creative writing. If I'm applying to do a Music degree, I probably play an instrument to Grade 8 standard and have a particular interest in a specific composer. Super curricular activities cost money, require access to facilities and require some degree of access to opportunities outside of school just as much as extra curricular ones do. Super curricular activities also require you to have knowledge of what you don't know and where to find it, which is often what gives middle and upper class children the advantage, due to having parents with a higher degree of academic education who can help them access that information.

Therefore, I don't understand why you seem to think super curricular activities are less 'middle class' than extra curricular ones. They're not.

I also think it's rather classist to assume that working class children don't have hobbies. I grew up working class. I had loads of hobbies. They were all free. I played on the school netball team. I played in the school orchestra and had instrumental lessons - all free. I was in every school production and the school choir - again, all free. I had funding to go on school trips abroad. I had an amazing local library where I got all my books and was widely read. I did my Duke of Edinburgh award through my school, who also paid for it for me. On paper I looked middle class when I applied to university, but my parents didn't have a pot to piss in and both left school at 14. Don't ever assume you know everything about someone from what they've achieved. You can't and you don't.

My ds got four 9's (maths, English, chemistry and physics) and five 8's at GCSE and was predicted A in his A Levels (maths, further maths and stats), he did get all A in his finals.
Still didn't get into Oxford or St Andrews.
He got offers from Durham, Warwick and Bath (and chose Bath) studying Maths.
It's a total lottery

All A* that should have said

I was just wondering if anyone has mentioned widening participation to you. We didn't know about it and ds missed out on some great opportunities. With you writing that the school doesn't often get top grades your child maybe eligible. The Sutton Trust courses and Summer schools seem good and if your child completes it they'll get a contextualise offer or a guaranteed offer. Different uni's offer different things but really worth bearing in mind and applying at the start of year 12.

Anything 7 and above is great for GCSEs

Just put in as much effort as you can and it'll be fine

A Levels are more important

But you do need decent GCSEs to get on the A Level course you want especially if it's oversubscribed

That’s not really the same tho is it. I knew a yr 11 who was doing DofE and hating it. Why do it then, I asked. Oh I have to, or I won’t get any uni offers, she replied. Utter nonsense obvs. I’m sure we know many dc who got great uni offers without DofE, or grade 6 piano, or captaining the footy team. Yes, these things (and many others) can of course link to the subject. Brilliant. Ds2 studies a science and related his love of sport to how it linked to a desire to work towards improving health. Dd took Eng lit and talked about the books she loved and the plays she had seen and been in. All good. I am pretty sure we agree tbh.

Some of the 'top' ones have their own entrance tests.

At my son’s school there was no drama department. There was no drama teacher even. No school plays, no choir, no orchestra. A group of 6th formers, one of whom was in a local theatre group did their best to put on a show involving the younger students. I’m so grateful for that (or rather my son was). They had zero budget.

My husband offered to teach several of my son’s friends who couldn’t afford music lessons for free so they could get into college/university. Extra curricular are not available to all.

@EnidSpyton many children need tutors and many get them.

The way many teachers speak and teach does not get through to all children. If you can get a tutor who can offer a bespoke help to advice child, that's an amazing gift to give your child.

I really dislike the way getting a tutor goes hand in hand with pushing children or pressuring them.
Often it's a salve to them because they have one on one total support from someone with time just for them.
There is no way in the state system one teacher can possibly go over things and help all children to the degree they need help.
Teaching is a treadmill with a strict time table, you don't understand something or fall back? Woe bettide you unless you get help at home to catch up.

In the top echlons lots of students will be getting amazing results and uni will look at gcse if students are equally matched.

If a student is capable of it why not?

If a student isn't I'd go for the subjects they want at a level and English and maths only and I'd go all out for them and forget the others..

I didn't realise that. When I was at school 5 C's was what people who wanted to do a levels were aiming for because that's what you needed to do a levels. I think you needed a C in whatever subjects you wanted to do at a level too. My ds1 needed 5 4's including maths and English to do his extended diploma so I thought that was fairly standard for a levels as well.

Some unis/courses look at gcse results and some don't. I don't suppose many really care that much about the difference between straight 9s and a mix of 9s/8s/7s.

My dd did get straight 9s as it happens but her focus wasn't on what uni she went to, she just wanted to fulfil her potential. Some kids are intrinsically motivated and just want to do their best. Others are more strategic about where they put their efforts.

If your dc is intelligent enough to get a string of top grades, I think I would be inclined to leave them to it - provide support as requested but let them chart their course.

No. DD's school (state comp) required minimum of 6s for A-level subjects and minimum 7s for some, like maths. I think this is pretty standard.

Agree with others comments; while 5 x grade 4 would be excellent for some students (Inc one of my DC) it's not enough for A levels. Some schools and colleges take students with a 4 but the outcome is not usually great. A grade 6 at least is usually recommended for A level study of a subject.

Sounds as tho the op's DC will be getting minimum 7s anyway tbf.