Maximizing chances of GCSE grades at 8/9 is essential

[Elizo]

Interested in views:

A child is heading for 7-9s. In a school where 8s/9s not v common.

Two views/ options:

Getting high numbers of 8s/9s is essential for top unis. Tutors/ work flat out and maximize chances of 8s and 9s. YANBU

or

7s are great so as long as they are on the cards no need to stress. YABU

I’d want to know why 8s and 9s are not common in the school. Is it the cohort they get or do teachers not know what the exam boards are looking for to get the top grades? I think the key message to tell your child is to maximise their potential and work as hard as possible. Don’t start putting the pressure on by discussing top universities etc. They may not even want to go down that route.

I haven't voted as I think the middle way is probably best. There's no doubt that a set of good GCSEs at the top end of the grades gives a young person a very good foundation for future study/employment. However, whether a full set of 9s will make a meaningful difference to most people's lives compared to say a mix of 7s,8s and 9s is debatable. I think it is definitely worth aiming as high as possible in subjects planned to be studied at A level, especially if one of them is Maths. There's* a *big jump from GCSE to A level and starting from the strongest position you can is going to be advantageous.
But balance is important and pushing a teenager too hard can be counter productive I a number of ways. Some extra encouragement and maybe some tutoring in a couple of subjects is one thing but tutors in every subject leaving no time for hobbies, social life etc is another. There's a risk of alienating them, or putting them off study or too much pressure can be damaging to self esteem and well being.
I think it also makes a difference whether the predicted 7s are off the back of really hard work already or whether they're being achieved comparatively easily. If it's the latter and 8/9 could be achieved with fairly modest additional input then it is probably worth putting more in, but trying to push a youngster who is already close to their maximum potential for what is not a massive gain, probably isn't. 7s are not to be sneezed at and will be more than enough to do A levels at most schools.
So I'd say that additional tutoring etc is possibly worthwhile in moderation but I'd be selective about which subjects and make sure that there is still enough down time in your DC's life.

Not RTFT but here’s my take (and I have three dc who have taken GCSEs with very varied results):

Your dc needs to want to work and revise, or they will not do so. This may mean there are subjects they will focus on and others they will leave. Or it may mean that they will work hard at all of it. Or none of it.

If they appear to be set to do badly, whether through lack of ability or of work, imho it’s ok to support them to do better. Pretty sure I helped ds1 get some of his grade Cs and Ds.

If they are able but have decided not to bother too much with subject x or y, that’s ok. I know this is MN heresy, but dd could have got more than 6 in maths and ds2 ditto in Eng lit; but in neither case were they keen and after offering help if needed, I didn’t see the point in pushing. Pretty sure it has made zero difference (both in early 20s).

So to sum up @Elizo , I would leave it and be happy with grades 7-9. That’s all A and above in old money and genuinely excellent.

Yes you may need all 8/9 to go to Oxford (probs not tho) but if that’s only got through major tutoring, Oxford uni will be an impossible challenge anyway.

Ive just realised I misread the op said '8s/9s not v common' ...afaik anywhere that looks at GCSEs does so contextually so in that case 7-9s is more than likely fine anyway.

As a very experienced secondary teacher, I beg you, please don't put pressure on your child to get all 8s and 9s and start hiring tutors for them as they go into Year 11. It's not fair, it's not necessary, and it puts far too much pressure on them to the point where they risk burning out and struggling with their mental health. They don't need all top grades to be successful in life, and they have so much to juggle in Year 11 that putting this pressure on them is actually counter-intuitive. I've dealt with so many mental breakdowns of Year 11s over my career, usually caused by over ambitious parents putting unbearable pressure on their children, and it makes me so furious. They are so vulnerable at this age and what they need is lots of encouragement, support and reassurance that no matter what happens, you will love them, be proud of them, and that they will be ok. Please remember that teenagers are not fully mentally developed, they struggle to regulate their emotions and put their experiences into broader contexts. Failing an exam for some is quite literally the end of their world and will cause them to spiral. I can't stress enough to parents how important it is not to send the message that exam results are the be all and end all. You really don't always know what is going on inside your child's head, and you don't know what all of that pressure might lead to them feeling, thinking or doing.

As a guide, it should be a slow and steady build up to the exams in Year 11 - think a marathon, not a sprint. On a week-by-week basis their revision should be consolidating what they've learnt that week, ensuring they fully understand any relevant theoretical underpinning to their new content/knowledge and can apply their new knowledge to enrich and develop what they already know. They should be reading back over classwork and making brief summaries, and highlighting any areas they feel less confident on to revisit and, if necessary, ask their teacher for more support in order to understand.

If they are doing this on a weekly basis, they won't need to be spending hours and hours in the run up to exams revising content they should already know. It'll be just refreshing specific details that can easily be forgotten - for subjects like History and MFL there will be a lot of rote learning they'll need to ensure is fully stuck in their brains - and practising examination techniques.

As I always say to my students - the most important thing is to not waste time revising topics you already know. Lots of kids find it really reassuring and confidence boosting to keep going over subjects they are confident in, churning out practice exam questions and congratulating themselves on how much they know, while avoiding tackling the areas they struggle in or for which they need to memorise a lot of content. They can't allow themselves to indulge in just doing the easy stuff - they have to be strategic and focus on the areas of challenge in order to make the most of their time.

Teachers should be providing revision guides and so on when they get back to school in September, but getting your kids who are going into Year 11 to go over Year 10 stuff as they get to the end of the holidays and make a note of what they feel they need to brush up on or ask for support with, is a good way to get them into the revision mindset as they prepare to go into the final year. I wouldn't stress them out with doing a load of revision over the summer - this is going to be a tough old year and they need to go into Year 11 having had proper rest and relaxation over their summer break.

The bottom line is in the real world outside of a minority of employers NO ONE CARES! Seriously. No one cares at all about your GCSEs your A Levels or even your degree once you're established in a career. I wish someone had told me that at school

Not v common?

Ds's school is very good and most of top set 1 and top set 2 get an 8 or 9, as standard.

There is a middle ground of achieving to your potential but not piling the pressure on.

Aiming for 8's in potential A level subjects (especially if those subjects are maths/sciences) would be optimum and aiming for s many 7's as possible in the other subjects.

Teaching will check you have GCSE in Eng and maths - but I am lolling (sorry) the idea that you would be rejected for a teaching job bc you had grades below an 8 at GCSE.

My ds is looking at applying to Oxford. For his course they do look at the results at the school compared to the child's results and this number goes into an equation with their entrance exam result and is taken into consideration for their application (physics). 8's and 9's are treated the same. If you can afford it I'd support your child to get more 8's and 9's if they are capable just to give them more options. Maybe have a look at the kind of courses they may apply for eg humanities or science and see if it does make a difference.

If you're child is likely to sit an entrance exam you maybe better saving some or all of the money and paying for tutoring for that (some of the pat content is covered by ds school) or super curricular.

Your kid sounds like they're doing amazing regardless.

I’m only quoting what DH has been told about his grades (apparently a PhD in his subject doesn’t completely offset the concerns they have that he won’t be able to stretch the most able).

One of mine is at Oxford with four 7s in the mix (and a B in RE from yr 10, I think). So indeed 'might' be relevant but also might not be.

I got top grades at GCSE, A-level, and then a First from a ‘red brick’. I now work in an administrative role that is graduate level but frankly I could have got to where I am with a 2.1 and a less stellar academic record. Given my time again I would do Duke of Edinburgh to Gold level , something I felt I simply didn’t have the time for while I was on a conveyor belt of courseworks and exams.

Ok read the thread and some great posts eg @MrsAvocet and @Octavia64

Agree that great grades in A level choices are a good thing - 8/9 in maths is the best prep and as an MFL specialist I would not be keen on anyone with lower than 7 taking A level - but in general I see most agree. All 8s and 9s not needed for any uni really apart from perhaps Oxford.

I always thought that the thing to aim for was 5 C's (or 4's nowadays) and anything more than that was just a bonus.

@Elizo sorry, I live in scotland, but are A levels not more imprtant than gcse????

I’d be disappointed if my kids thought 5 x 4’s was all they were aiming for. And I would be extremely upset if that’s all the got given they’re neurotypical bright kids. It’s not enough for A levels. I’ll be honest, 6x6 is the absolute minimum they should be aiming for if they want to keep A level options open at a decent 6th form.

That won't get you on to A levels in many schools. Almost everywhere will ask for 7 in maths to do maths A level, and many ask for 6s in relevant subject for any A level.
In some places it may not get you on to T-levels.

The way I see it with the whole "no one cares" and the "grades don't matter brigade" is that good GCSEs allow you to do the A-levels you want. Good A-levels mean you get to go to a good university.

Doing well at university hopefully leads to a well paying and satisfying career. Each helps you get onto the next step.

I would also say as well, as someone quite involved in the UCAS process every year, universities are really looking less at grades now and more at the whole student. They've taken away the open-ended personal statement from next year and will now ask candidates to answer a set of closed questions instead, which are focused on enabling students from a wider range of backgrounds to be able to show their potential (or so UCAS says, anyway).

If, in order to get top grades, your child is spending all their time out of school revising or with a tutor, at the expense of developing any extracurricular interests, then this would be counter productive for them. There are so many students achieving top grades now that the differentiator between candidates is what else they can offer. A student with all 9s who does nothing other than study is going to be a much less attractive candidate than one with all 7 and 8s but who is also on the school rugby team, is the lead in the school musical and volunteers at the local Scout pack on the weekends, for example.

Yes, you need the grades you need. Only a very few, if any places need 9s (except maybe further maths).

I mean, the bottom line is that to be a contender at Cambridge you need to be the sort of person who can read three difficult books to prepare for one supervision (and do this 2x a week), look at the five questions that an eminent professor in the field has set, and not only be able to answer them, but also be able to work out why they weren't exactly the right questions to be asking. Without ANYONE at all making you do it. Your tutor groups are 2-4 people so you can't even talk to your friends about it. If it sounds insane, that's because it is.

A person capable of doing this is as likely to have got 7s at GCSE with no tutor, maybe even no revision, as they are to have got 8s/9s. Tutored GCSE results are connected to Cambridge degrees about as much as being really good at card tricks. The mad political theory book you read at 2am for no reason other than personal interest, when you were 16 and supposed to be doing your GCSE practice papers, will be more use to you. The degrees require a particularly intense and unusual skill set which is quite hard to explain if you haven't been through it.

I always regret my C grade in GCSE maths (equivalent of a 7 now). You might not think these things matter, but they can do, depending on the subject. I know I could have done better.

My children’s (state) school requires a 7 to study a subject at A level.

as far as the original OP my children are at highly ranked universities (I’m not sure what you classify as top) and neither took GCSE’s into account or used them in the selection process.

I was talking about after uni RE jobs.