Why so many husband problems?

[Curiousto]

I've just spent the morning with my friend listening, again, about to all her husband issues.

She's one of 4 friends who have ongoing problems. All 4 would rather tolerate the low level annoyances, deceit, laziness, lies and rudeness than say "I'm done". All 4 have moaned about their men for years.

I turn on MN and 4 of the 5 trending threads are about 'D' Hs

Why on earth do wives put up with so much crap from husbands? And why do we as a society breed this in both men and women?

My personal stance on this is that I couldn't be happier 5 years on from my 20yr marriage ending. I was done with his crap. Those 4 friends "wish they could be like me and get rid" They all see how much happier I am now but still themselves put up with being sad and cross 90% of the time.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

They like their lifestyle and don't want to work?

I work full-time and always have done.
My children have a decent standard of living with two of us in full-time employment, if I was to divorce their dad this simply would not be the case.
There would be no hobbies, no streaming services, a colder home in winter, less showers, dirtier clothes, poorer quality footwear, fewer pets, fewer treats.....the list is endless.
For most women it isn't a choice between working or wafting around their mini mansion in a silk dressing gown as a lady of leisure, it is about maximising the 'family income' rather than stretching it as a single earner.

being trapped financially. Not everyone is able to work themselves out of their relationship. Life is complex and complicated, and expensive. Great that you managed but what a goady post!

considered that sometimes, people cannot work (or only limited hours)????

For the same reasons as you staying for 20 years!!! That's a hell of a long time.

Fear of change / increased financial stability with partner / kids / cultural, social or religious pressure to stay.

I tend to agree with this!

They know we need them for financial stability, I stayed for many years after finding out about my ExH double life. I hated him and the situation I had found myself in! Then I quietly planned my exit.. you have to be brave enough (or desperate enough) to want to leave. I was both, it wasn't easy but my god my life has been turned around!

This

Well, the fact that women let men do this stuff to them doesn't help.
Then their boy children observe this behaviour from the father, the reaction of the mother, and think it's normal. As do the girl children
And so they behave like that as adults

You are responsible for they way you are treated; let someone abuse you (in all its forms) and they will abuse you. No point wondering then why this continues.

OP used ‘low level’ to describe her friends’ marital issues, though hers was quite a varied list. Not sure what ‘lies and deceit’ means. As that’s not low level to me. I would probably describe low level as things like resentment over free time, not getting up at night with the kids, not contributing fairly to housework, general bickering that doesn’t always have a clear cause. All of those things have a scale of their own though.

Maybe your friends are just moaners. I love a moan and a whine. Maybe they do this more with you because they don't want to rub it in your face about how their husbands can be great too. I know for the little things that irk me like not putting washing in a basket and leaving it in a pile before he washes it, my DH also does a ton of things that are wonderful.

Very respectfully, because it really frustrates me too, and I used to think this a lot, but I can’t just get on board with blaming the woman anymore at all.

This thread highlights the conditioning of women and society, over history, to both believe being a single mother is somehow shameful and difficult and actually making it shameful and difficult.

It’s not a woman’s sole job to ensure her children grow up with good role models and it is not their job to train, mould or demand that their husbands be decent men.

I get that the ultimate control is accepting the behaviour or not, and therefore leaving or not leaving, but then we’re all the way back to the first point again.

There was a post on MN fairly recently, within the last year, where a poster described a sort of epiphany she had whereby she wasn’t going to bother talking to her husband about something he did wrong or ask him not to (I think it was something like go out with his friends for the 3rd or 4th time that week, because she felt that as an adult man he should not need it pointing out to him and needing it pointing out made him a fundamentally rubbish person. So what was the point?

The answers were varied, many posters thought that if you didn’t talk about problems in your marriage then you’re contributing to the end of the marriage. But I really got what that woman was saying and it stuck with me.

You have ‘not accepting’ the behaviour by demanding they do differently (which should you really have to do?) and then ‘not accepting’ the behaviour by leaving the relationship – and then again we are back to square 1.

Thanks, @Didimum . I was being a bit simplistic, but having lived on the plant for 6 decades, and having woked over 40 years of those in a public service role, I have observed 100s of of relationships and individuals. No matter how much we say 'we shouldn't have to tell a man how to behave', for some reason, many of them don't have a clue.
So who is that down to? Do/does their parents/parent guide them to good behaviour and they forget it as soon as they are in a relationship? Or is it observing their parent's relationship?
No doubt in 20 years time, people will still be posting the same issues here!

Off the top of my head I reckon:

Money (or lack of it)
inability to secure rented accommodation either passing the checks or finding it in the correct location
fear (he might’ve threatened to take the kids, make her life a misery, not see the kids, or he won’t take care of the kids as he ought to etc),
loss of lifestyle and how it’ll effect the kids,
if it’s an abusive relationship a belief that it will get better if she does x, y or z,
being too quick to forgive and forget or make excuses for him (it’s not that bad),
a lack of belief in herself or her abilities,
just being too damn tired keeping all the plates spinning by herself that there’s not enough time or energy to make any changes about things.

I never understood why women stayed before, but I sure as shit do now.

Well sure on a forum you are always^^ going to get complaints more than praises. Who comes on a forum to say 'my DH is fantastic. I love him dearly and he treats me like his Queen'?
If you did you'd be accused of being smug anyway.

No idea regarding your friends. I don't have that experience. My friends are mostly really happy. A couple weren't. Neither was the man. So they divorced. But they never bitched about each other.

People in happy rationships don’t make posts about it to gloat. People in shit relationships make posts about it to vent 🤷‍♀️

@Curiousto

Agreed that people don't post the happy stuff. But the threads you do read, the woman's standards are often low.
Yep. Because again the women with high standards and good relationships have no reason to post

You do get replies telling them to raise their bar so the commenters saying this must have higher standards

How ignorant.
Forums have the abilty to share and talk in a safe open space unlike in some familes and marriages.
Fashionable to talk about how shite a husband is i would look at it as being able to put it out there and let opnions help decide weather it is or not.

They stay for a comfortable lifestyle. They say it’s for the kids but trust me the kids won’t ever thank them. Kids adjust well, growing up in a peaceful calm environment is more important

Crikey, I really hope not 😟Though 20yrs isn’t that far away I guess …

Is has to be down to what little boys see in their fathers, male family members and the men around them they look up to. And I suppose today’s adult did not have the best around them (circa 70s, 80s, 90s). I think you can have the mosr solidly non-shit taking mother in the world, but I’m not sure how much that influences a little boy. My little boy doesn’t want to be me or his his clever aunt or my very lovely best friend, he wants to be his cool head teacher, his fun-loving dad and the funny older boys at school.

Society as a whole just needs to expect and demand more of men. Shame them properly for leaving their wives and kids and ensure they financially provide for them with closing all the ridiculous loopholes of hiding their income, stop them pissing and shouting in the streets, properly penalise footballers who make wanking motions during games, crack down on boy’s club behaviour in schools, chuck disruptive stag dos out of venues, call out loudly harassment on public transport and public places, bosses should question why their male employees are not taking any shared parental leave. The list is endless …

I think, even though divorce is available, people still have the mindset that you should stay together for the kids. Divorce is bad etc. ive been with my H for 20 years and i got to age 40, thought im half way through my life now, ive been unhappy a long time. There was a straw that broke the camels back situation and i just filed. The relief has been brilliant. Im looking forward to being single from early next year. It takes balls but just go for it, its not as scary as you think it is.

I think the point about having one person to meet all needs is actually spot on.
The way we live now as tiny little nuclear units sealed off alone in our little houses isn’t natural or the way we evolved for hundreds of thousands of years.
It’s not a surprise marriages don’t last, the pressure on them to deliver ‘everything’ for both people is far too great and totally unrealistic.

I also think there’s been a subtle but dangerous shift in mindset starting point that impacts happiness.
Previously the general mindset was ‘the world is brutal, life is damn tough, let’s find small ways to make life a bit better’
These days it starts with ’I deserve a perfect life, I don’t like all these small imperfection vs my vision of what I deserve, therefore I now feel unhappy’.

Money, don't wish to unsettle kids in GCSE year. Money......

Most families can't cope on one wage. It's that simple. Running two households will be very difficult.

My career took a nosedive whilst raising kids.

My DP became my child - he just wanted somebody to look after him and the security (respectability) of a family life. He'd rather have this than live on his own and he thinks I'll facilitate this facade forever.

Once I get financially independent I'd like to separate.

You have ‘not accepting’ the behaviour by demanding they do differently (which should you really have to do?) and then ‘not accepting’ the behaviour by leaving the relationship

I'd not seen it like this before @Didimum It's a great way of looking at things.

The woman can't win in this, can they?

Good point too @alwaysmovingforwards about society feeding us the lie we deserve a perfect life.

For me, the perfect life was being coupled up and not getting a divorce. Being a Mrs instead of a Ms. Keeping the children with both parents in the bigger house having all the good things in life we could afford for them and us. Keeping up the illusion that everything was tickety boo, whilst behind closed doors I was living a hell.

The sad thing for me is that I know I rarely whinged to my friends about XH, as I didn't want them thinking badly of him, or me for putting up with his shitty behaviour. And even when I did moan, I only moaned about the tip of the iceberg stuff. It makes me wonder if my friends are doing the same as I did.

When in fact the actual problem is that there are, it seems, so many husbands out there who are unable to do 50/50 of adulting in a partnership.

The man I'm currently seeing, I have no desire to live with ever, as I see how he runs his home and life in his mid 50s. I have the same thoughts about my ex boyfriend before him.

XH is being a selfish twat when it comes to parenting our now adult children, as "you've got to look after your own happiness"... Doesn't matter that he's trampling all over his children and their happiness to try to chase his pipe dream.

Maybe I just know an awful lot of really crappy men!

I'm interested in how many people call it a day when their kids leave home. I'd expect it to be quite a lot, but not sure it is. Maybe once the stress levels of life with children have reduced, things get better? Maybe people just sigh and accept their fate/ better-the-devil-you-know ?