To marvel at privately educated Keir Starmer's hypocrisy?

[Bursarysadness]

Both Kier Starmer and his wife are privately educated. Kier's senior school converted into a private school in the second year of his attendance and he has received a generous full bursary up until his A levels. He has built his life and his success on this education, supported to the end by the bursary funded by the same schools and parents he is now trying to destroy. It pains me as my children receive 50% bursaries from a brilliant local school. We've worked incredibly hard to cover the remaining 50% but it has been worth it, seeing how my children blossomed. We had a very different experience in their primary state schools, including bullying and racism. We don't live in a great area. We have just been told that the school will probably reduce all their bursaries to be able to lower the fees for the non bursary parents who are now struggling because of the VAT introduction. I don't know what the future for my children is now and they have so many close friends where they are. They are both academically brilliant and work very hard - hence the bursaries were granted. I feel so depressed that, from what is becoming obvious, they won't be able to benefit from the generosity of bursaries the same way Kier Starmer did when he was a child ..

I can see how "respect" would be very random.to you @CurlewKate

And this is the problem. It’s hugely divisive and people just end up getting their heckles up and falling out with each other.
Most of the people I ever meet want the best for their kids and are doing want they think is right. why can we have that as a starting point.
Labour could have had a proper consultation period and a staged implementation to give existing parents (and children) time. Time to save additional fees, find suitable schools, and move house if necessary. The arbitrary introduction has left people (and schools from communication I’ve seen) angry.
To use an example; the tories introduced free nursery hours. You now can’t speak to the HMRC to sort out tax free childcare/hours etc. it is literally impossible.
The complaints lady I spoke to said they hadn’t spent time (and money) ensuring the support and infrastructure was there for the roll out. In her words “it’s been a nightmare”.
And this will be the same. Families put under unnecessary financial pressure, schools facing maximum chaos and councils scratching around for places. The cost is to kids.
Its a crying shame that Labour haven’t taken the time to
make the implementation smooth and as painless as possible. But then that wouldn’t make those that “hate the rich” happy.

@Shadesofbllues I don't listen to "insiders claim". If the Prime Minister or the Shadow SofS for Education had said something I would have listened. And yes, I do know a lot about this policy.

@Bursarysadness I have never been rude or disrespectful to you. I think you are confusing "disagreeing" and "disrespecting" and your comment does you no credit.

Labour mole? Seriously. She is a long time poster who disagrees with you. Perhaps you can broaden your participation beyond this particular topic, and you might have your mind opened too.

No, I don't think she disagrees with me. She disagrees with anyone who doesn't support labour'a decision, no matter what arguments they might have. She doesn't disagree with specific opinions, she just generally disagrees

A Labour mole planted on MN 😂😂😂

For what it’s worth I’ve appreciated CurlewKate’s posts on this thread and agree with pretty much everything she’s said.

That said, I’m passionate about improving education for all children, so the idea of a very small privileged elite having to pay more to send their privileged children to privileged schools is not an issue I’m going to get indignant about.

It's so funny, I agree with her and I was accused of being a bad actor days ago on this very thread. Seems a running theme among the private school lot - clearly a bunch of conspiracy theorists 🤣

@cassandre - how about a not so small elite of parents of SEND kids who practically bankrupt themselves to send kids to these schools? Not because we want them to grow up "posh" and privileged but because they can't cope elsewhere and because we feel we have no choice but our house is already remortgaged and we do do any holidays because we can't? Do you have any problems with us paying more? Do you know anyone with kids who have significant special needs? Your post upset me greatly and I would love YOU to respond please... Is your hatred towards privileged people directed at SEND parents too? Where is the idea of people who have little understanding those who have even less and have it even harder? Is your heart so hardened now?

Gosh I’m sorry @senmama007 , I agree that the situation of DC with SEND is a different story. I was writing with the OP in mind, who said her DC were ‘academically brilliant’.

As a state school governor I’ve seen firsthand how hard it is to get support for pupils with SEND. I don’t blame you at all for sending your DC to an independent school.

I’m not sure what the solution is in practical terms, but DC with SEND deserve all the support they can get. I wish there were some way for them to be exempt from the VAT.

I'm sorry my post upset you. You make a good point 💐

To clarify though, I don’t hate privileged people.

I just think it would be a lot better for everyone if private schools were abolished, and state schools were properly funded.

@cassandrethank you for responding. I have two and they don't qualify for ehcp. They manage and do well only if the set up is right. If it's not, they fall apart. I saw them fall apart before so know how it looks. I really can't pay more. I can't. But I can't see my children fall apart again. I haven't slept since the announcement. I really haven't. All i'm asking is for people to stop saying that private schools are a luxury and a breeding ground for privileged people. They are for some for sure but they save my children. Now the can't be saved but I still have no clarity what we will be offered instead. I know mumsnet is mumsnet and politics is politics but I wish sometimes people read things with their hearts instead of their hatred or bitterness. I could feel bitter about many things life has thrown at me too... But I just have to go on at fight for my kids and, right now, I think that literally everything is against us. It's significant that there is not one SEN parent on this massive thread saying they have send kids and they think private schools should pay vat etc... not one. Do I want to pay private school fees? No, I don't. I only feel I have no choice. When people on this thread get going saying how they care for ALL kids, please remember that SEN kids are also kids...

@Claphambunny "You said earlier that you've never heard September 25 motioned before and now you say you have but not by the right people?"

That's not what I said. I said I would only pay attention to policy statements and timetables when they came directly from people in the government or the shadow government, not from "political insiders" reported in the Telegraph. But maybe my little mole-y fingers make my typing difficult to read.....

@CurlewKate I've just been reading the senmama and cassandre exchange and felt so moved. Then I saw you post in response to that I just think you have no heart...

In the same boat here though we will be able to pay the VAT. It infuriates me that not only have our kids had a horrendous experience at state school, but many on threads like these castigate us when we take the only available decision and opt for private.

This was exactly my thought @Claphambunny when I saw that... Cringe

With all due respect it's not all about you

Well Farage was privately educated yet clearly has racist views and has the noted talent of inciting mobs to riot. Johnson was privately educated and was known for his racist views, misogyny, lying, law breaking and rioting behaviour as a Bullingdon Club hooligan.

Oh - and Farage is a beercswiller (to appeal to the masses).
Can't see anything wrong with being a champagne socialist - you ideological convictions does not demand you keep off fizz!

Sob stories like those on this thread are never going to win the argument. What I can’t understand is why no one challenges this policy on the grounds that it is wrong to tax education. If they get away with this change then nothing is safe from their clutches.

I don't agree with Labour's policy on Private school fees - basically because I think that the cost to the state system (when some parents are priced out of the independent school market) will be higher than what is generated in VAT on school fees. State education is really struggling and pupils (particularly those with SEN) are not being provided with the education that the need and deserve.

When I was a child, we had the state grammar school system - I passed my 11+, but my parents still tried to send me to a private school for secondary - I refused to go because I wanted to stay with my friends (whether grammar or comprehensive). I actually passed the 11+ and ended up in a girls grammar, but would have been happy to go to comprehensive if I hadn't passed (the comprehensive schools in our area at the time, were pretty good). Ditto exactly the same scenario with my brother.

My husband and I don't agree with private education. All three of our children went to the local comp......Until my middle child was diagnosed with ASD and just didn't cope in a state comp - at that point, we paid for him to go to an independent school, and he thrived.

Therefore, although I don't agree with the policy anyway (because I think it will end up costing the tax payer more and not less), I do think that children with SEN should be exempt from this - they shouldn't need an EHCP because they are almost impossible to get (another symptom of our state sector being completely broken - not labour's fault, but they have to fix it)

I also think that using independent schools (if you can afford them) takes some pressure off the state system and costs the Government and tax payer less - in the same way that using private health care does. I don't understand why labour aren't seeing this?

@Claphambunny you’re just being silly now. @CurlewKate was responding to your direct posts. What do you expect her to do? Accusing her of being heartless and / or a Labour mole do your arguments no justice at all.

Correct

And do you genuinely think that all privately educated people are the same as Johnson and Farage? Have you never come across a state educated racist?!

The bigotry and prejudice on these threads is astonishing. There are lots of different types of private school but posters use people who have been to a few elite schools to justify this policy. Even at those elite schools, not everyone is the same. I would never assume that people who all went to one school or one type of school are all of the same character. That’s the very definition of prejudice.

And if you’re looking at the common denominator amongst prime ministers, it’s Oxford. Maybe we should make everyone who attends Oxford pay VAT, or close it down.

@Claphambunny "@CurlewKate I've just been reading the senmama and cassandre exchange and felt so moved. Then I saw you post in response to that I just think you have no heart"

I was responding directly to you. By name.