To marvel at privately educated Keir Starmer's hypocrisy?

[Bursarysadness]

Both Kier Starmer and his wife are privately educated. Kier's senior school converted into a private school in the second year of his attendance and he has received a generous full bursary up until his A levels. He has built his life and his success on this education, supported to the end by the bursary funded by the same schools and parents he is now trying to destroy. It pains me as my children receive 50% bursaries from a brilliant local school. We've worked incredibly hard to cover the remaining 50% but it has been worth it, seeing how my children blossomed. We had a very different experience in their primary state schools, including bullying and racism. We don't live in a great area. We have just been told that the school will probably reduce all their bursaries to be able to lower the fees for the non bursary parents who are now struggling because of the VAT introduction. I don't know what the future for my children is now and they have so many close friends where they are. They are both academically brilliant and work very hard - hence the bursaries were granted. I feel so depressed that, from what is becoming obvious, they won't be able to benefit from the generosity of bursaries the same way Kier Starmer did when he was a child ..

Why? Is it because you can’t afford it?

I can’t tell you how furious I am about this tax.

Not actually for us - we have two kids one in a brilliant state school and one we moved to private school because of her Sen needs and we only will be affected by the tax for two terms before she goes to uni. But on our journey through private schools we have met many parents who are in a similar situation and only moved one child to private due to Sen needs.

I am angry about this narrative created that it’s almost like private school parents are responsible for the failing government schools - when we have actually been forgoing our children’s places and saving the tax payers dollars.

It’s been easy pickings for the labour government to charge private school parents instead of making all our community responsible for government schools.

But what I am upset about most is that behind this tax are children. Any decent parent would understand how hard it is to assimilate children into school environments, learning routines, making friends - the academic agenda is not identical in all schools…you can’t just pick up a kid and put them into another school they might not have been studying the same subjects or they could have been studying the subjects but in a different order.

Education is not a luxury - and anyone who thinks so has a doubtful moral compass in my opinion.

Can anyone please tell me what other countries tax private schools?

@Woww2 "Does he send his children to state schools? I met a parent who lives near him and said Keir has a child at the same private school his child is at?"

Yes he does.

@WhysEverythingABallAche PS aren’t full. They struggle now to stay open. If a school of 200, that can accommodate 300, drops to 150, it’ll close. This is what happened to a local PS of mine. Where are those DC going to go, my town can’t accommodate them.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. If a particular Private School is failing so badly that it doesn't have enough pupils to stay open, then surely there won't be many pupils to find spaces for in state schools when it closes? And that's assuming they all move to state and not just go to a different Private School, as you appear to have chosen for your DCs.

On the other hand, if a particular area is desperately short of state school places but the local Private School is so unpopular it's got to close, I've got a great idea - the Private School could turn itself into an academy or free school and fix both problems in one go!

On that logic, those who pay for private health insurance should receive money back too. What grim public services we’d have under your model.

No because it’s a choice not a necessity. Are you really so dopey to think that private education isn’t a luxury purchase?

I didn’t realise that as part of my profile it details my family income and outgoings for you to know what I can and cannot afford.

@Lyraloo education is not a luxury. Private education is.

A small number of privately educated kids will move to state over a wide area affecting a small number of children, who are not necessarily from the poorest families, and who did not necessarily vote Labour.

@mylifestory I think you must've been watching a different general election to me because if you think it was just "the poor" (and what a horrible and othering phrase that is!) voted Labour.

This is a very narrow definition of 'educated'.
By your definition, I am educated, with A levels and degrees. And as soon as the key issues facing our country are how to subjugate Spanish verbs and closely analyse sonnets, I'll throw my hat into the ring.
For now, I want politicians educated in the state of our country today and the issues facing us all. And that is not taught primarily in academic classrooms, but gained through experience. You seem to be using academic education as a proxy for intelligence: Angela Rayner left school without qualifications to have her first child. You cannot judge her intelligence from this.
Suitability for political office should be about character, not qualifications. I want my politicians to possess integrity, a strong moral compass, clear vision and judgement, empathy, compassion and resilience. And the humility to accept the need to change where external factors change.
By your argument, Truss was eminently qualified by her formal education: her lack of judgment and humility crashed the economy. Johnson, Sunak et al enjoyed the most privileged academic educations. Look further afield - Trump is 'educated'; JD Vance has a degree from Yale.
What precisely on the academic curriculum is essential for a great politician?

@TheTrainNowDeparting Absolutely. And if you need a feminist analysis of Jane Austen you'll need me in your cabinet. I'll stand by the phone.

No, academic education is not enough to be a good politician. Not at all. As you point out, there are a number of other equally important criteria. I'm not a fan of Johnson or Truss either. Or Sunak.

However, good education gives you a lot - the ability to analyse, think critically and from different angles, solid and deep knowledge of world history (which in my opinion should be required from every politician as history repeats itself and the UK is part of the world and doesn't exist in a vacuum), knowledge of geography and how it has shaped countries, societies and attitudes. And although many people don't appreciate it, knowledge of other languages gives you much more than just being able to conjugate verbs. There is so much education gives, not all tangible and a lot of it is tacit knowledge. The fact she didn't strive to be educated herself after she had a child shows that she doesn't in fact value education. Otherwise, if she valued it, why wouldn't she do it? She is obviously not stupid so could have, as many women having children as teenagers do.

This whole thread is about education and about how important it is for every child to get good education. And now, with her example, you are arguing that, actually, education is not that important...? I'm struggling to understand to be honest. Especially on this thread...

Exactly... So why do you need the VAT money if education is not that important? I don't understand either...

Still no reasonable explanation why!

Take a look in the mirror if you think I’m dopey! Where you never educated enough to know that when you have to resort to insults, you’ve lost the argument?

@Claphambunny Rayner did train in social care so she could work to support herself and her child. She also did other training as a union official. But I assume that doesn't count in your works?

Yeah ok 🙄

You consistently ask people to justify why private education isn’t a luxury while offering no explanation to why it isn’t. It clearly is a luxury it isn’t needed.

Again making assumptions about my educational background and level, as well as my family finances.

This is hilarious. So people are now arguing that education is not important, even for someone who is a senior politician? Honestly LOL. Why do we bother then? Why do you want the private schools VAT money to "make state schools better"? You say that education doesn't add much. It just shows that this whole move and legislation is driven by envy and designed to punish.

Well they have a very similar personality to me (well actually my DH calls DC2 my clone that’s how similar we are) so I understand him better than anyone. I therefore know that my local state comp is completely unsuitable for him (and my friend who teaches at the school and has tutored my son told me not to send him there so I take her advice too). I would love him to go to the fantastic state school that DC1 attends but, again, that’s also unsuitable for him. Different children need different things and, unfortunately, what my DC2 needs is not available in the state system so I pay (a lot) for his mental health and wellbeing.

@Whatamess0 "This is hilarious. So people are now arguing that education is not important, even for someone who is a senior politician?"

Nope-nobody is saying that. But why let the facts get in the way of a good story?

@CurlewKate have you read the message above from @TheTrainNowDeparting ? Throughout this thread you keep responding to everything with short messages that give no substance or counterarguments and are just designed to dismiss, attack and deride. Not to add value

This 'being educated' argument is spurious. The issue with having a good, bad or even no education is the relative access to life chances that it provides.

Angela Raynor is clearly intelligent and has myriad of life experience to draw on. For many who are not so bright being well educated is the difference between success in life and not. Which perpetuates down the generations.

So having a decent education is not the only pathway to success but it is a well worn one. This access should be available to all.

There are plenty of decent state schools, you need to find one like everyone else.

@Whatamess0 The point is that of course education is important. But it is ridiculous to say that someone who did not get much formal education but who, through sheer hard work and determination achieved something significant is not qualified for that role because of the absence of formal education. "Well, yes-but she doesn't speak Spanish" is a very strange flex.

@IFollowRivers 'For many who are not so bright being well educated is the difference between success in life and not."

Let me rephrase this for you - "For many who are not neurotypical, being educated in an environment that works for them and nurtures them, is the difference between success in life and not".

Being a parent of SEN children is more challenging that you will ever appreciate. Every day. From morning to night. And we are now also penalised for trying to give us our life's savings to help our children to try to have a normal and relatively successful life? and this is OK? By what standards? Please explain it to me. State system doesn't have the bandwidth to deal with SEN children. It tolerates them at best