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Original poster

To marvel at privately educated Keir Starmer's hypocrisy?

1000 replies

Bursarysadness · 06/08/2024 16:03

Both Kier Starmer and his wife are privately educated. Kier's senior school converted into a private school in the second year of his attendance and he has received a generous full bursary up until his A levels. He has built his life and his success on this education, supported to the end by the bursary funded by the same schools and parents he is now trying to destroy. It pains me as my children receive 50% bursaries from a brilliant local school. We've worked incredibly hard to cover the remaining 50% but it has been worth it, seeing how my children blossomed. We had a very different experience in their primary state schools, including bullying and racism. We don't live in a great area. We have just been told that the school will probably reduce all their bursaries to be able to lower the fees for the non bursary parents who are now struggling because of the VAT introduction. I don't know what the future for my children is now and they have so many close friends where they are. They are both academically brilliant and work very hard - hence the bursaries were granted. I feel so depressed that, from what is becoming obvious, they won't be able to benefit from the generosity of bursaries the same way Kier Starmer did when he was a child ..

OP posts:
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Claphambunny · 07/08/2024 22:37

HowardTJMoon · 07/08/2024 22:32

Let's imagine she got A levels in biology, art and spanish.

How are you envisaging that these would materially affect her political performance? Or would you just change the target of your sneers from her not having A levels to her not having the right A levels?

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So you are just arguing that education is not important and doesn't add much? Why do we all bother then? State or private?

Firethehorse · 07/08/2024 22:39

HowardTJMoon · 07/08/2024 22:26

Kier took the 11+ which we can only assume means his family, and Kier himself, did not want him to attend the local state school. Children do not have to sit this exam, it is a choice.

Is that a fact? I'm a bit younger than he is and, to be fair, it was a very long time ago but I'm pretty sure the junior school I went to had everyone do the 11+.

It was certainly a choice at my school.

mumedu · 07/08/2024 22:45

Dibblydoodahdah · 07/08/2024 22:21

Not all goods or services are taxed though. So you argument fails there. Plus private schools reduce pressure on state schools and save the taxpayer money.

And if you post something on here, you have to expect someone to disagree with you. You can’t tell people not to respond!

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Exactly this. So private school parents should get the equivalent in state school costs put towards the fees.

Dibblydoodahdah · 07/08/2024 22:46

Jumpers4goalposts · 07/08/2024 22:37

It hasn’t fallen down because it will be taxed.

I’m happy with people to disagree with me, but you’ve made your point, I’ve made mine and now we are just going around in circles.

the argument about reducing pressure is a silly one really, if there is a mass influx into state education then the systems will just change to accommodate.

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You said that it should be taxed because a private school parent is buying a service. But not all goods or services are taxed, so your argument fails.

And no, it’s not a “silly” argument. It’s costs the state to educate pupils so it saves money if a pupil is educated privately. New spaces cannot be created without spending money.

mumedu · 07/08/2024 22:47

Claphambunny · 07/08/2024 21:43

Noone wants have to have PPE but at least an A level...?

I think you are confusing her with Gillian Keegan, who left school at 16.

BIWI · 07/08/2024 22:49

FFS. How many times?! @HowardTJMoon it's KEIR.

Why can't you respect the man's name?

And @Golightlygoodnight

Unfortunately the labour ethos is to drag everyone down to the same miserable level…

If you knew anything at all about Labour party politics and values, (or could even be bothered to find out) then you'd know that completely the opposite is true.

misteek · 07/08/2024 22:51

I think you will find he went to a state Grammar school which became private after he left

Dibblydoodahdah · 07/08/2024 22:52

IFollowRivers · 07/08/2024 22:36

@Dibblydoodahdah well at the moment I would (in London at least which is where both the OP and I reside)
a) investigate it for myself and decide for myself
b) avail myself of the full ?six or five I can't remember preferences I would get on the application form

State schools in London are some of the best in the country thanks to the London Challenge. It baffles me that so many think they are a completely unacceptable choice for their DC.

Well that shows just how privileged you are and how out of touch you are with other areas of the country. My DC got offered a place at a reasonable state school but it’s 22 miles away from his brother’s state school. There is no school or public transport to either school.

Dibblydoodahdah · 07/08/2024 22:54

mumedu · 07/08/2024 22:45

Exactly this. So private school parents should get the equivalent in state school costs put towards the fees.

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They do in Australia. In the US some states offer a voucher system which you can use towards a private school.

AnnieSnap · 07/08/2024 22:56

Dibblydoodahdah · 07/08/2024 22:32

Well that’s great for you but my dad lives off £240 per week and the winter fuel allowance made a big difference to him.

Your experience of one private school does not mean that all private schools are failing to meet their charitable objects.

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It makes a significant difference to us too, but some of us care about the greater good. If your father is on so little, he will still receive it!

Everyone, no doubt including you, knows full well that Private Schools are not charities.

HowardTJMoon · 07/08/2024 22:57

Claphambunny · 07/08/2024 22:37

So you are just arguing that education is not important and doesn't add much? Why do we all bother then? State or private?

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I'm trying to work out why you are so eager to dismiss Rayner's college education in social care in favour of just any A level.

Jumpers4goalposts · 07/08/2024 22:57

Dibblydoodahdah · 07/08/2024 22:46

You said that it should be taxed because a private school parent is buying a service. But not all goods or services are taxed, so your argument fails.

And no, it’s not a “silly” argument. It’s costs the state to educate pupils so it saves money if a pupil is educated privately. New spaces cannot be created without spending money.

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And schools are missing out on funding as they have spaces that they cannot fill.
Swings and roundabouts. The chances of all private school parents whipping their children out and sending them to the local state school is very unlikely. But if they did yes it would cost money however it would benefit education for all children.

mylifestory · 07/08/2024 22:58

RedditFinder · 06/08/2024 16:59

I’m completely agree! Finally a private school parent talking sense. Private schools should just be for the people paying the fees and no one else. Pure capitalism.
Now we’ve agreed that, let’s remove their charitable status. What a con that always was!

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You mean now they've removed their charitable statuses they don't have to appear to be charitable any ore especially in lensing their facilities to state schools. Well state schools are apparently getting a windfall of cash from this so let them build their own sports facilities inc swimming pools!

Original poster
Bursarysadness · 07/08/2024 23:03

misteek · 07/08/2024 22:51

I think you will find he went to a state Grammar school which became private after he left

No it didn't. Please read up

OP posts:
Dibblydoodahdah · 07/08/2024 23:04

Jumpers4goalposts · 07/08/2024 22:57

And schools are missing out on funding as they have spaces that they cannot fill.
Swings and roundabouts. The chances of all private school parents whipping their children out and sending them to the local state school is very unlikely. But if they did yes it would cost money however it would benefit education for all children.

Edited
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It doesn’t need “all” pupils to be removed to cause problems. People are contacting their LEAs and are being told that there are no places or that there are long delays in processing applications. The spaces are not evenly across the country. In my nearest city out of 30 primaries only one has space in year 6 and there are no year 5 places.

IFollowRivers · 07/08/2024 23:05

@Dibblydoodahdah I want all state schools to be as good as the very many in London that are so. I totally accept that I am privileged. I do what I can to give back to the school and support all the pupils who attend.

However the OP and many on previous threads have been London based and still claim that state education is not good enough for their DC. It's just not true.

The only way we can really improve education for all is by removing the built in inequities provided by selection, religious, financial and academic. Location based inequality is harder to overcome but not insurmountable. It's only when those in charge start to really care about great education for all - because they have to -that change will come.

It doesn't matter how they were (or weren't) educated but what they intend to do to improve the current status of things that matters. The VAT issue is a statement of intent and I applaud it.

Claphambunny · 07/08/2024 23:05

HowardTJMoon · 07/08/2024 22:57

I'm trying to work out why you are so eager to dismiss Rayner's college education in social care in favour of just any A level.

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I don't think it's good enough to be in such high position of power. In Europe, all teachers have to have a university degree, even if they teach in primary schools

Gingertam · 07/08/2024 23:06

HowardTJMoon · 07/08/2024 22:26

Kier took the 11+ which we can only assume means his family, and Kier himself, did not want him to attend the local state school. Children do not have to sit this exam, it is a choice.

Is that a fact? I'm a bit younger than he is and, to be fair, it was a very long time ago but I'm pretty sure the junior school I went to had everyone do the 11+.

That's correct. Everyone did the 11+ at my school in the 80s. No comprehensives. So many people commenting who are clueless. The Grammar school he went to was one of "the local state schools" at the time.

mylifestory · 07/08/2024 23:06

TheSpoonyNavyReader · 06/08/2024 17:11

The difference is Sir Keir Stramer lives in a very affluent area, where everyone lives in large houses, he is not sending his children to the local comp in a deprived area.

This policy is going to make those great schools become more difficult to get into as the prices of housing in the vicinity more expensive out of the price range of most.

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And the local kids who wd normally go to these schools will be pushed out to worse schools as the richer ppl live in the more expensive houses in the right catchment areas. So who's screwed now. The poor who voted labour!

mylifestory · 07/08/2024 23:11

Happyher · 06/08/2024 17:19

He obtained a place at the grammar school by merit not money as did my brother. He just happened to be in the right place at the right time. Starmer made the most of the opportunity probably encouraged by his parents. Unfortunately my brother ended up delivering bread. Life is what you make it

You do know that you have to pass an exam to get into private achools, it's not just money? And if you do pass well and u don't have the money u will still get in ....

HRTQueen · 07/08/2024 23:11

mylifestory · 07/08/2024 23:06

And the local kids who wd normally go to these schools will be pushed out to worse schools as the richer ppl live in the more expensive houses in the right catchment areas. So who's screwed now. The poor who voted labour!

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Good lord

The poor who voted Labour 🙄 if only those pesky poor people just accepted that a fair education system isn’t available to all

cardiffcatarrhalchoices · 07/08/2024 23:13

To have gone to a private school is not assumable to be a benefit, it can be a harm, it was for me. They can be too wishfully sure of themselves in an authoritarian way, they can be cheapskate rubbishily resourced, they can have wrong ideas.

Atethehalloweenchocs · 07/08/2024 23:14

Kier took the 11+ which we can only assume means his family, and Kier himself, did not want him to attend the local state school. Children do not have to sit this exam, it is a choice.

Not true - I am about the same age as him and it was compulsory for all children when I did it (and failed). Thank god we moved out of London later on, and I went to a non segregated school where they did not write me off as not worth educating. Went to a top 5 uni as a result.

mylifestory · 07/08/2024 23:27

Allthisdrama · 06/08/2024 17:56

I'm an experienced science teacher in a senior state school in London. I do it as I want to teach all children. However, a few points from me:

  • I have absolutely no problem with private education and think these schools also do a lot of good, especially for sen children. Many of them also share their facilities with state schools and organize camps / workshops for gifted state kids. Hey, I guess this will stop now!
  • whatever you may want to think, private education is much better than state education. It's sad (especially for me as a state school teacher) but it's true.
  • it's better not just because of their labs, facilities, languages they offer etc. it's mainly better because of the parents!!
  • in my state school, kids come late, rarely with homework done or homework done properly. They don't prepare for tests. They don't care. Because the majority doesn't care or doesn't prepare, this means I can't progress with my teaching and teach the bright ones because I need to make sure that the 70% of tbe class that doesn't care is of level good enough for them to at least know that the hell is going on. I feel genuinely sorry for the bright ones
  • a lot of kids drink or take god knows what. This is not conductive to learning. Many parents don't seem to know?
  • many kids are aggressive (not because they are bad kids but because they are totally lost, not parented, with no guidance or support at home)
  • when I try to raise anything with some parents, sometimes I get assaulted - verbally, even physically. I had a chair thrown at me or was called a c*. I think this was in response to me commenting on regular lack of homework. I was "picking on their kid".
  • after COVID, the level of absenteeism is like nothing we've ever seen before.
  • for all it's worth - yes, I think it's the politics of envy to be honest. Not the fact it's been done but how it's been done. In the middle of summer holidays with schools closed and staff on holidays, and starting from January and not next September. It's clearly malicious and designed to hurt and disrupt. It's petty

I'm getting quite tired of it, frankly. Schools are definitely underfunded. But, from where I am standing, the biggest problem is the deterioration of parenting in the UK. In China classes have 60 kids in them. Schools are underfunded in India. However, the parents make sure the kids do their homework, they come to school, every day and on time. And, above all, they respect the teachers so teachers can teach. There is a shocking absence of looking at ourselves, our society's approach and engagement in education, our attitudes and respect for teachers and hard work. This is what needs to be fixed and then all state schools can be good. Without this, you can throw millions at it and achieve nothing.

Here is goes. From an exhausted disillusioned teacher to you.

Thank you for being brave enough to say all of this truth!

rainymood · 07/08/2024 23:39

Inconvenient truth...

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