Teen and PIP

[Sunshineandpool]

Just looking for opinions on this and what you would do.

So teen is 17. Recently been diagnosed with Autism and ADHD. They have been awarded around £600 in PIP. All fully in their name - no one acting on their behalf.

Their mother is worried about them suddenly having a lot of money that they may not spend sensibly.

Options she is considering:
Teen has half but has to save £50 of it. The other half the mother will have and will make sure it is spent on things to support the teen with their autism/ADHD

Teen has all the money

Mother has all the money and gives teen an allowance of £100 per month. The rest of the money she spends on things to help with teen's disabilities. She will also save some for the teen to give her a small financial buffer in future.

Just to clarify the money legally belongs to the teen but she is open to her mother helping to manage it.

So wwyd? One of the options or something completely different.

£600 is a lot. I get £98. Which descriptors did he meet? If one is not being able to deal with financial issues then his mum should have it.

I was my son’s appointee at 16 and so received the PIP into my account, the same as his DLA. At 16 he wouldnt have been able to manage it.

When he turned 18, after a lot of work, we sat down and talked about how the money should be used.
My son did a lot of activities such as scouts and Duke of Edinburgh, sports, - all things which contributed to developing independence and living skills. So I kept the money to pay for all of that, plus a chunk of driving lessons and getting him set up for uni.
Now he’s at uni I still receive the money but transfer it straight to him. From thus year he wants me to put it into a savings account so I will.

I think if someone has a LD and can’t or isn’t ever expected to live independently it’s silly to suggest they should get to chose how to spend their money.
No it isn’t silly. There are many people who can’t live independently for all sorts of reasons and some of those have LD. That doesn’t mean they don’t have capacity or they can’t decide what to do with their money. People with LD can and do have lives that include making decisions and choosing for themselves. Some may need significant support or only be able to do it in a very limited way but it’s not a black and white situation, capacity never is.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to suggest that the people who get the brunt of the cost should have a say.

@Sunshineandpool well they have “a say” in that if the person lacks capacity they can ask to “say” for them, but if they haven’t done that or the person has capacity they can decide how much they can do if the person contributes, but it’s not their choice. It’s exactly the same as if you walked out the door and became disabled tomorrow. Your money is still your money.

They could ask for a contribution to bills, assuming they are living with her. Presumably they already buy their own food, phone contract etc? If not then they should be. If they are genuinely contributing to the household then the rest is theirs to spend on whatever. But there won't be loads. Especially if he also needs to pay a bit of rent. Obviously not market rate for a lodger. But it depends how financially secure the mum is really.

Yes but if I walked out the door and became disabled tomorrow I’d still be mid thirties and not living with my Mum. So my PIP would have to go towards my household expenses or care in some capacity. If you’re not responsible for the cost of your living expenses I don’t agree you should be able to treat that money as your own.

I agree with this, when my eldest daughter was assessed for PIP they asked her if she went to the shop with £1 and spent 80p how much change would she have. From her giving the correct answer, they somehow came to the conclusion that she was able to make budgeting decisions.

No your PIP would be to alleviate the disability, you would get it regardless of work or your financial situation. We have PIP as the cheapest and most efficient way of getting support for your disability as we don’t provide services to do that. For your living expenses you would claim UC if you were eligible (had minimal savings and no income).

The PIP would just go in the pot with the rest of my money. I wouldn’t not pay a utility bill or go hungry because it was the wrong source of funds.

Teen keeps money and can spend how they like but parent should be sitting down with them regularly to help budget and advise and basically teach them how to manage money responsibly.

Well either you would be living beyond your means and missing out on the level of support you needed (and let’s be clear for most people pip doesn’t cover their disability related costs) OR you would see the living costs you have as part of your support needs (eg you need airconditioning because heat and sleeplessness triggers your epilepsy so your electricity is high or you need the heating on more because you can’t move around) and then allocate part of your pop to that.

Quite.

My point exactly - let’s be clear for most people pip doesn’t cover their disability related costs) OR you would see the living costs you have as part of your support needs

Which is exactly why I hold the view that I do - PIP shouldn’t necessarily be ring fenced by a teenager and it’s not unreasonable that some of it goes towards their parents costs of housing/caring for them as that’s a wider part of the costs of their disability.

The money isn't for spending how you like though, it's for helping with the extra costs of the disability. And at 16, I doubt any of those are coming out of the teens pocket.

I think if you asked a 16 year with needs high enough to be awarded PIP how much or in what way their disability cost their parents they'd have no idea. If you asked my 15 year old (who gets higher rate care DLA) she'd have no comprehension of how her needs mean I can't work full time for instance. And I'm not sure I'd want her to fully understand the impact on my mental health and earning capacity her need have. If you asked her she'd probably just say I'm lazy

@nothingcomestonothing my teenage relative would spend it all in McDonald’s!

I think that’s what most parents do. When you cannot work, especially once they’ve left school there’s no option but to put it in the family pot. My son now lives in a residential placement so the care component is no longer paid but he comes home regularly for a week at a time so i still can’t work a regular job. Luckily whenever he’s home I can claim the week for him but it takes forever to phone the dates through each time and then there’s the wait for it to be paid 🙄

There is no stipulation as to how you must spend your PIP money. Disabled people have the right to autonomy over how they spend their money. You can spend it on what you like really.

There is no reason a 17 year old can't take on the living costs of living with their disability instead of the parents paying for it all. They are almost an adult. So if the kid needs taxis for their health the 17 year old pays for it. If they need more expensive food because of sensory issues they pay for the extra food or contribute to the extra food money spent. Also reasonable for a 17 year old to pay towards bills of the house etc

So when I say spend on what they like obviously I mean that to include the expected living costs of a 17 year old. Most 17 year olds would be expected to pay some board etc to their parents. But there is a difference between the tween having access the money and being taught to budget for these life experiences and the parents just taking the money. I think teaching the kid to budget is far better.

Most 17 year olds would be expected to pay some board etc to their parents

No, they wouldn't, especially if they are still in FT education.

There is no reason a 17 year old can't take on the living costs of living with their disability instead of the parents paying for it all.

If someone is getting an enhanced rate of PIP they have pretty significant disabilities. Which probably means their partners ability to work is reduced and as another poster has alluded to - the rest of the household also have a burden of the cost of living with someone with a disability. If someone’s needs are great enough for the highest rate there are likely a good number of reasons why they can’t manage their own money independently.

If someone’s needs are great enough for the highest rate there are likely a good number of reasons why they can’t manage their own money independently. I’m not sure this is correct at all. Having high needs doesn’t for a moment mean that those needs are related to capacity or for that matter money management.

This isn't nessiccarily true at all. I get high rate PIP and can manage my own money. I get high rate because I score low points but accross the entire criteria. There was very little I didn't pick up one or two points on and the some criteria I scored 4 plus points on and so I more then reach the threshold for high rate PIP. I can definitely manage my own money though.

I wouldn't assume that this person can absolutely not manage their own money and expenses especially with guidance and support to learn how to budget, which is a skill that it would be helpful for the person to learn how to do considering their parents wont be around forever.

The money is the disabled persons PIP money to spend on their needs not family money for family to spend on "the burden of living with someone with a disability" or whatever. If the 17 year old is considered to have legal mental capacity then they should have the autonomy to be helped to manage their own money and living expenses instead of it being assumed they are incapable of doing so and family just taking it from them and controlling their money.

Did the PIP application not ask for descriptors of what the money was needed for? If so, it seems logical it would be used on those costs.

The pip application form does not ask you to explain what you need to spend money on.

I think that expecting a 16 year old to comprehend the costs involved to their parent of them having the needs they have is a tall order and quite likely to cause stress and distress. We are not talking about grown adults, this is from 16th birthday. No 16 year olds are paying board or paying for their own food surely?

And don't you think it'd be upsetting for a just turned 16 year old to sit down with mum and hear 'well you cost me extra than a normal kid would because of x, and y, and double of this and loads of that' because of something they can't help? Because they lose and break stuff more than other kids, they wet the bed and cause.more washing, they chew through the cuffs of their clothes etc etc? They're likely already self conscious about their difference without literally being sat down by their parent and have it itemised and being asked to pay for it all. I'm all for helping young people reach as much financial independence as they can, but I think that's a very big ask of a 16 year old, to set out the way they cost their parent more.

I would have assumed this assessment of what the extra costs are would be submitted as part of the application process?