Teen and PIP

[Sunshineandpool]

Just looking for opinions on this and what you would do.

So teen is 17. Recently been diagnosed with Autism and ADHD. They have been awarded around £600 in PIP. All fully in their name - no one acting on their behalf.

Their mother is worried about them suddenly having a lot of money that they may not spend sensibly.

Options she is considering:
Teen has half but has to save £50 of it. The other half the mother will have and will make sure it is spent on things to support the teen with their autism/ADHD

Teen has all the money

Mother has all the money and gives teen an allowance of £100 per month. The rest of the money she spends on things to help with teen's disabilities. She will also save some for the teen to give her a small financial buffer in future.

Just to clarify the money legally belongs to the teen but she is open to her mother helping to manage it.

So wwyd? One of the options or something completely different.

It can actually be paid into any bank account. An appointee could decide to have it paid into the recipient’s account, or the recipient could decide to have it paid into a parent’s account.

That is separate from the issue of an appointee.

I have not said the appointee can’t choose what account money is paid in to.

Even if a claimant decided to have PIP paid in to a different account it would still be classed as being paid directly to them.

I'd treat it like wages from a part time job unless she shows she can't handle that. Encourage a percentage into savings, she pays for her own phone, non education related travel, toiletries above the basics, clothes above the basics,socialising, gym etc. Mum saves on those expenses to it helps her too. I wouldn't straight off the bat assume she can't manage it, give her a chance to prove herself and allow for a few silly months in the beginning.

Yes, the money is paid into the mother's account.

Thank you. This is what we were thinking for her to do with half of it to try and learn to manage it. With the expectation as you say there will probably be the initial excitement of having their own money! And yes, I think it would be good for her to be expected to pay certain things and the money her mother saves on that gives her a bit of extra money to compensate for not being able to work full time.

The assumption is you have capacity unless you show otherwise. So in this case a 16 year old has been awarded a higher rate for a benefit that is to allow her to access life/education and alleviate any difficulties she has. She has capacity so I don’t see why she can’t manage her money. Presumably her parents can offer advice and support.

PIP is a contribution towards the extra costs of disability.

Travel costs
Specialist food
Additional medical treatment
Specialist equipment
Extra heating
Specialist clothing.

The teen and mother need to sit down and work out the extra costs of disability and then put the PIP money to pay for them.

There is only her mother.

Whether she has capacity I don't really know. Would she spend the money to maximise the benefit to herself - I don't think she would. Would she be impulsive and struggle with her executive function? Yes - that's part of why she has the award!

Her mother is going to speak to her about this and help her identify these extra costs.

If she doesn’t have capacity her mother needs to evidence that claim and then she could be made an appointee, but it’s not a casual thing. She certainly can’t just hold her child’s benefit without showing she lacks capacity. People, even 16 year old disabled people, may spend their money as they please.

Yes, I do agree with that in principle.

However, she is controlling the money with the consent of her DC

So her mother keeps half, a bit goes into savings and the rest the teen can spend as they like.

@Sunshineandpool It isn’t pocket money. It’s specifically to level the playing field so I’m not sure what either pot of money (one for teen and one for mum) you are thinking is for?. Some ideas, she’s 17, would she like to learn to drive? Would that help her going forward? If she’s likely to drive in the future does she have savings for the down payment on a motability car? If not NOW is the time to start saving towards that. Would a computer or other tech like a smartphone with maps/calender/tracking/emergency contacts help her get on better at college? Would gym membership or a PT help her fitness and community participation? Does she need a new mattress/bed/wardrobe/aircon/white noise to get better sleep? Would going out to a club/class help her socially?

None of these are things she MUST spend her money on but they are things that might be a good use of that money, so THAT’S the sort of thing I would be encouraging her to spend it on.

To PPs - no, capacity is not assessed as part of PIP.

But even if it was, capacity as assessed under the mental capacity act only assesses the individuals understanding in capacity to understand the issues discussed and make decisions in regards to them in the context of the physical or mental health condition that has prompted the capacity assessment. It includes the right to make what other people may consider 'bad decisions'.

I think a lot of posters don't understand what capacity is legally, hence all the posts on this threads and others; particularly where posters with elderly parents are told all sorts of nonsense about capacity.

I'd say the teen and Mum should sit down and have a chat about how money is going to work-if teen's conditions mean they can't manage a part time job like a lot of teens would, then can they agree that some of the PIP is immediately 'fun' money for the teen, like £100 a month or something. Then try to save some for future disability related costs, again maybe £200 a month.

Then I'd look at things like:

Is teen someone who is meant to get the bus to college but often misses it due to time blindness caused by ADHD, so Mum has to drive them, and bus would be £2 a day but petrol costs Mum £25 a week? If so, then the extra petrol money comes from PIP and goes into the fuel tank

Does teen eat a lot of more expensive processed food, ready meals etc because they're limited on what they like, or need the routine of the safe foods, or whatever? If feeding every other person in the house costs £50 a week and teen's food costs £80, £30 from the PIP goes into the food budget.

Also with ADHD and impulsivity-Mum could (if she wants to/is comfortable) offer teen the option to pay for her things from Mum's bank card when she wants something, so that she has to say Mum pass me your card so I can buy X. This gives the teen a few minutes of 'do I really want this' thinking time. This would of course only work if Mum always hands the card over and doesn't say no, Mum isn't deciding she's just helping the teen with another layer of impulse control. (I often say to my partner oh I want X-he never says I shouldn't buy X, he might say hey I've seen X cheaper at so and so place-but it helps me to think before I just click buy)

Capacity to manage the claim and whether someone is able to act for themself is assessed as part of the appointee process, but appointeeship is governed by different legislation, it is not under the Mental Capacity Act 2005 and not a capacity assessment in the same way.

I know it's not pocket money. And yes, those would be good things to spend the money on. However, ultimately it is her money to choose to use as she likes as you pointed out.

I’m not sure what response you were looking for.

That's what I did with my DD. I was her appointee but let her have a portion to learn to budget. She is a gamer, so there was a level being saved for a gaming laptop. After 21 she paid for her own passport etc. She was working part time by then. It's gradually increased and by 23 she mostly handled her own money.

My autistic adult DS gets PIP, a higher amount than in OP as his needs are more severe. I've been his appointee since he was a child - DS was happy for me to deal with it. He gets UC as well. I take the majority of the funds to pay towards living costs, disability costs and save in a pension for him (not savings in his own name as it would eventually build up and affect his UC). He gets a small amount for pocket money. He blows all that money on the same day - if I gave him more he would spend more. He's happy
with the arrangement and doesn't question it.

I think if OP's niece is actually capable of managing their own expenses including disability costs then they should have full access to it. I expect it's unlikely though at that age. I also think it's fine to put PIP into the general pot for household costs. Many families don't have the capacity to ring fence disability costs and there is no point setting aside money for sensory equipment if the household is struggling to pay food and fuel bills.

Why do you think that?

At that level of PIP it's highly likely they would lack capacity to manage their own finances.

I don't think £300 a month is an unreasonable amount for a teen. If they worked every Saturday it would be the same amount or more.

NMW for a 16 year old is £6.40 so it’s around 46 hours work a month. That’s more than that a Saturday. It’s quite significant.

I'm appointee for DC of 18 who has learning disabilities and he would never spend anything if left to him it would sit in his bank. I put it in a separate account for using it to meet his needs. He loses so many things because of his condition so I use money to replace things he's lost. Most winters he'll lose 3 or 4 coats, 6 gloves, numerous pencil cases with pens etc in. He just looks up and says x is gone. He has no idea where he had it last as has memory issues. He also has 2 1-1 sports coaching sessions each week as he finds group lessons very difficult. It is expensive but raises his self esteem so I think it's money well spent.

I think if someone has a LD and can’t or isn’t ever expected to live independently it’s silly to suggest they should get to chose how to spend their money. The cost of caring for the disabled person is obviously going to lie with the carer and our basic needs - which the carer is otherwise going to provide out of their own pocket need covering first and foremost. Having an adult dependent is probably the largest cost associated with the disability.

Hoping that makes sense!

I see alot of teens/adults with LD at my gym - I guess a gym membership (as I can see that is therapeutic) would be a sensible use of the money and as pp said the extra clothes etc. But surely the carer is best placed to allocate funds as they’re the ones who have been accruing the costs.