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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to not want to get involved in my MIL's dodgy dealings? anybody with legal/mortgage experience HELP!

48 replies

itsMYmummy · 14/04/2008 16:41

To cut a long story very short my MIL and SFIL have made some very poor financial decisions in the past. They had a lot of money that they lost setting up obscure niche companies, buying cars, buying and selling houses (they fanicied themselves as property empresarios) (sp?). They have also encouraged DH and I to take out loans in the past, and encouraged us to purchase a house from dbil with the intent to let it out, we made a very big loss with this house and we later found out they needed BIL to sell up so he could purchase a house on their behalf, we were pushed into buying quickly so he could be financially free and i truly believe they witheld info about the house in order for us to buy it. Although I take full responsibility for this as we should have done more research ourselves and not be so trusting and niave.
The culmination of all these poor decisions came to a head last year when they had to sell their home quickly rather than have it repossesed, and now have an IVA against them, they are currently renting a house in a dodgy area, and I know they are keen to move.
About a month ago they suggested that DH and I, along with BIL could help them purchase a house via buy to let, i.e we act as the purchasors and they rent, i.e. pay the mortgage. DH and I discussed this and in principle had no reservations as long as we drew up a contract stating things,such as what would happen if we wished to sell our home in order to purchase a larger property (which we would ideally like to do within the next 4-5 years.)
Yesterday we recieved a phonecall from them and they stated quite matter of factly 'oh yes, well now we'll be doing a let to buy mortgage, so you pretend we're moving into your house to rent it from you, and you move out into the new house'.
DH and I are not keen on this at all I understand that these types of mortgages can be very useful if you geniunely need to move, i.e relocation for work but don't want to sell you're home, the mortgage lender will not take into account the present mortgage on you're home as long as you can prove that you have tennants to cover the mortgage.
They have been offered by SFIL's mother a sizable deposit.
Apart from the fact that it would be fradulent to pretend to our mortgage lender that we were relocating, would'nt this have more long term implications i.e having to change our voting details, then how would this impact on school places for dc's. Also insurance details would have to be changed. Not mentioning if we wanted to move, or remortgage. Any help or advice would be appreciated. My gut instinct at this point is to say no, as is dh's, but I want firm reasons to give to MIL.

OP posts:
doggiesayswoof · 14/04/2008 16:43

You've said it - you will be committing fraud.

Run a mile!

hanaflower · 14/04/2008 16:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

beaniesteve · 14/04/2008 16:44

Soory - I am a bit confused. When you say that they said "'oh yes, well now we'll be doing a let to buy mortgage, so you pretend we're moving into your house to rent it from you, and you move out into the new house'" does this actually mean that you will just be pretending, or that you really will move out?

I think, from what I have read, that your husband is thinking along the same lines as you and so you should both be strong and say no together. No legal advice I am afraid but hope it gets sorted.

Chequers · 14/04/2008 16:45

Message withdrawn

doggiesayswoof · 14/04/2008 16:45

You are very kind btw - I would have said no to their first plan (ie you buy and they rent from you).

They do not sound like they'd be reliable tenants in any case...

waffletrees · 14/04/2008 16:46

YANBU - say no. MIL needs to starty standing on her own two feet. She cannot expect her family to bale her out all the time.

CarGirl · 14/04/2008 16:46

Just state clearly that this is not option the only option you can go for is the one suggested previously.

Although if it were me I would explaing that the mortgage lender has looked at your finances and will not lend you any money so you can't help at all and then run a mile. They have proved to you that they are only out for themselved and don't care about your financial security/future.

Run!!!!!!!!!!!

Wisteria · 14/04/2008 16:46

YANBU - if she wants to screw up her financial viability that's fine but don't get involved yourselves. They have an IVA in place already, that on its own would be enough for me to know they don't know the first feckin thing about money and houses

doggiesayswoof · 14/04/2008 16:51

CarGirl has a good point. If you are looking for a further reason, you could say that you have some plans for the future which make it a bad time for you to borrow any more. Be vague as it's none of their business what your plans might or might not actually be.

Actually, can you not just cite the last time you got involved with them financially and how badly you lost from it? Once bitten twice shy and all that.

itsMYmummy · 14/04/2008 16:53

Thanks for all the replies! beaniesteve we would be pretending to move out.
I'am angry that they put us in this position and i'am aware that they especially sfil, view us as nieve and i want strong points as to why this type of financial agreement would be detrimental for us. I don't wish to drag up the past in this instance, although i will if needs be! .

OP posts:
NorthernLurker · 14/04/2008 16:53

so do they want you to convert your current mortgage to buy to let and take out a new loan on the new property pretending to your lender that you will be living there?

This is a OMDB* situation. Run, run like the wind!

  • OMDB - Over My Dead Body
NorthernLurker · 14/04/2008 16:55

Oh and a solid reason not to get involved - lenders have tightened up their criteria massively and will not fall for this kind of arrangement.

TheBlonde · 14/04/2008 16:57

Just say no
Keep on saying it

lulumama · 14/04/2008 16:57

no way!!

they have lost a lot of money , had one house reposessed and bamboozled you in a previous deal, i would not lend them £5 never mind start committing fraud

itsMYmummy · 14/04/2008 17:13

Thanks for all your advice, you have helped made things more clear in my mind and was nice to here that myself and DH are not being unreasonable in these circumstances.

OP posts:
Kitti · 14/04/2008 17:19

They sound completely irresponsible and immature and clearly expect you and your husband and BIL to constantly clean up their messes. Tell them in no uncertain terms that you no longer want to get involved. They can always move house and rent in a better area and that would be wiser at the moment - wait until their IVA ends and tehn consider buying again when property prices have reached a low. You don't need to be involved in their bizarre schemes.

cluckyagain · 14/04/2008 17:21

No, no, no, no - highly illegal - if they want to do dodgy dealings fine, but don't let them drag you into them too! Stick to your guns lass!

SheSellsSanctury · 14/04/2008 17:25

I work in the mortgage sales department of one of the countrys largest banks and would only say one thing. Dont do it.

We are now being really strict about who we lend to and due to the fact they would be buying the house from a family member, ie you, we would be even stricter in our checks because you would not believe the amount of people who do things like this with the sole purpose of committing fraud. Technically if you were moving into the new house you would be ok, but if you stay in the property that is getting mortgaged you are committing fraud against a financial institution.

Flibbertyjibbet · 14/04/2008 17:35

With the current mortgage and buy to let market do you need any further excuse?

Seabright · 14/04/2008 17:44

Agree with all of the above - it's fraud and also if they've each already got a IVA there's no way their supervisor would let them get another mortgage, so they'll be in breach of the IVA's, therefore they'll be made bankrupt, won't be able to pay you - and where will you be?

You know you're right!

SheSellsSanctury · 14/04/2008 17:50

Also the interest rates on Let to Buys are normally far higher on a normal residential mortgage so if they struggle to pay one of those it would be even worse with a LTB. Do you know if they are getting the mortgage through a bank/building society or someone else. The reason I ask is that if it is with someone else they are normally far quicker at going down the legal route if the mortgage does fall into arrears.

Please do not have anything to do with this as it could seriously affect your chances of being able to buy another house in the future regardless of the fraud you would be committing.

2GIRLS · 14/04/2008 18:01

TBH I wouldn't even have bought a house to rent to them, what happens when they 'don't have this months rent, I'll give you double next month'.

And I can't really understand why they want you to pretend to move out, what is it for?

Is it because you have to pay more interest on a buy to let mortgage?

itsMYmummy · 14/04/2008 20:12

Thankyou oh wise ones for all the advice!

I had to pop to the chemist to buy some tablets for DS who has worms , oh the glamourous life I live!

SheSells- are you able to give me more info, re; future financial implications, yes I believe they would set this up through the 'someone else' route.

Any other advice will be much appreciated.

OP posts:
itsMYmummy · 14/04/2008 20:21

Bump!

OP posts:
edam · 14/04/2008 20:25

Don't even think about it for one moment, you madwoman! Just tell MIL 'no thanks' and don't get into any discussions. If pushed and you feel like giving her a reason, tell her you don't want to risk things going wrong like last time.

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