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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to not want to get involved in my MIL's dodgy dealings? anybody with legal/mortgage experience HELP!

48 replies

itsMYmummy · 14/04/2008 16:41

To cut a long story very short my MIL and SFIL have made some very poor financial decisions in the past. They had a lot of money that they lost setting up obscure niche companies, buying cars, buying and selling houses (they fanicied themselves as property empresarios) (sp?). They have also encouraged DH and I to take out loans in the past, and encouraged us to purchase a house from dbil with the intent to let it out, we made a very big loss with this house and we later found out they needed BIL to sell up so he could purchase a house on their behalf, we were pushed into buying quickly so he could be financially free and i truly believe they witheld info about the house in order for us to buy it. Although I take full responsibility for this as we should have done more research ourselves and not be so trusting and niave.
The culmination of all these poor decisions came to a head last year when they had to sell their home quickly rather than have it repossesed, and now have an IVA against them, they are currently renting a house in a dodgy area, and I know they are keen to move.
About a month ago they suggested that DH and I, along with BIL could help them purchase a house via buy to let, i.e we act as the purchasors and they rent, i.e. pay the mortgage. DH and I discussed this and in principle had no reservations as long as we drew up a contract stating things,such as what would happen if we wished to sell our home in order to purchase a larger property (which we would ideally like to do within the next 4-5 years.)
Yesterday we recieved a phonecall from them and they stated quite matter of factly 'oh yes, well now we'll be doing a let to buy mortgage, so you pretend we're moving into your house to rent it from you, and you move out into the new house'.
DH and I are not keen on this at all I understand that these types of mortgages can be very useful if you geniunely need to move, i.e relocation for work but don't want to sell you're home, the mortgage lender will not take into account the present mortgage on you're home as long as you can prove that you have tennants to cover the mortgage.
They have been offered by SFIL's mother a sizable deposit.
Apart from the fact that it would be fradulent to pretend to our mortgage lender that we were relocating, would'nt this have more long term implications i.e having to change our voting details, then how would this impact on school places for dc's. Also insurance details would have to be changed. Not mentioning if we wanted to move, or remortgage. Any help or advice would be appreciated. My gut instinct at this point is to say no, as is dh's, but I want firm reasons to give to MIL.

OP posts:
SheSellsSanctury · 14/04/2008 21:17

Hi
Is your MIL wanting you to take out the LTB in your name or is she able to get the mortgage in hers?

Not that either options are good by the way.

theressomethingaboutmarie · 15/04/2008 14:11

no no, a thousand times, no! As another poster put it, they have a terrible financial record and are clearly out for themselves only. They didn't give a damn about putting you in a tricky financial situation in the past so I would fully expect that if you went along with this (which would leave you open to prosecution of course), they would not be reliable tenants and you would end up getting financially shafted again. What if they decided to move out of the property having decided that a) they didn't like it or b) just wanted to live somewhere else?

You would be left firmly in the poo. Don't do it!

krang · 15/04/2008 14:34

Absolutely no way.

I wouldn't even bother giving a reason. I'd just say no thanks, our finances are too important to play silly buggers with. Especially right now.

hopefully · 15/04/2008 15:21

I think it's safe to assume (as many others have said) that the bank would actually check up on whether you were planning to do what you said you were doing, particularly in current tighter lending climate.

Also, committing fraud against a bank is not going to go down at all well!

If you really need a solid lie excuse, just say that in current economic climate bank are unwilling to review/renew your mortgage as your credit rating isn't perfect enough.

Blu · 15/04/2008 15:34

This will affect everything from your school catchment area to your house insurance (which could well be totally invalid if taken out on a false premise of who actually lives there with what status).

I would not have any jpoint financial dealings with these people at all.

Not only are they bad at it, but they are not even honourable (the previous dodgy dealings in which you were exploited by them).

It may well cause some bad feeling to pull out cleanly and totally at this point, but if you go ahead there will, for sure, be bad feeling in the future caused by more dodgy dealings AND it will come with the added insult of financial losses for you.

Blu · 15/04/2008 15:36

And the IR will want to see the income from rental and expect tax from it...it's a poisonous soup of deception and complication.

wb · 15/04/2008 17:31

I wouldn't touch it, or any other of their schemes with a bargepole tbh - unless you can afford to (and are prepared to) lose all the money involved with it.

mimi03 · 15/04/2008 18:47

take it from me, this is a recipe for a BIG family fall out. It will put a huge strain on all relationships involved.
i know its a different situation, but my partner and i went in with his parents to buy properties to rent and eventually sell (and hope to make a profit). it has put alot of strain on all relationships and i feel our lives are so intertwinned with theirs its suffocating.
you and ur hubby would be going way above the call of duty to help out ur family in this way....esp. as they sound to be presumptuous and not very reliable!

2GIRLS · 15/04/2008 18:49

I still don't understand why they would want you to pretend to move into the other house and they into yours. Can someone enlighten me please

itsMYmummy · 15/04/2008 18:54

Thanks for all the responses.

You have given me lots of solid reasons I can use when confronted with MIL, rather than just the awkward feeling I had before.
I think I was just a little shocked that they were so bloody presumptious as to expect us to just say 'okay where do we sign'!

OP posts:
itsMYmummy · 15/04/2008 19:14

2GIRLS- yes they originally wanted us and dbil to take out a buy to let mortgage on their behalf, they have an IVA which means that they have a financial obligation to pay off their debtors for at least five years, and during that time they will not be offered any further credit.

With a buy to let, we would have purchased the house and they would pay the rent i.e. mortgage. I think they've realised that on my DH and Dbil's salaries they won't be able to purchase anything to their standards.
However with a let to buy mortgage we would 'let' them our house and 'buy', move to another, although we would'nt actually move they want us to pretend to our mortage lenders that we need to move with dh's work and they would be renting our house from us. Mortgage lenders will ignore your current mortgage as long as you can prove you have tennants already aquired to pay enough rent to cover at least the mortgage. They will then give you a full mortgage, hence they get a bigger budget to purchase a nicer house for themselves. Sorry hope this is a bit clearer.

Mimi- that sounds like the type of situation I want to avoid!!

OP posts:
MsHighwater · 15/04/2008 21:29

Can I just add my voice to the chorus of people advising you to avoid any and all financial entanglements with your in-laws?

Frankly, after the previous incident you should not need any further reason than that but the fact that what they are proposing would be illegal also makes it toxic.

ShinyPinkShoes · 15/04/2008 21:31

If you buy to let you'd need to submit a tax return each year so that might give you another reason to use when telling them a great big NO!

CarGirl · 16/04/2008 11:48

LOL - we could't afford a mortgage to let to their standards - ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Avoid like the plague & run to the hills, perhaps the will stop speaking to you over your refusal I think that would be a blessing in dusguise!

alfiesbabe · 16/04/2008 11:50

No No No!!! Run a mile!

Uriel · 16/04/2008 11:55

Absolutely not!

itsMYmummy · 16/04/2008 14:16

Wish me good luck please, the 'disscussion' will take place on sunday, my birthday!! really did'nt fancy having an argument on my birthday but the more I think about this the more incensed I become.

Just hope I manage to stay calm and composed and argue my reasons well. Thanks for all the responses!

OP posts:
krang · 16/04/2008 14:26

Keep thinking during your discussion: how will this benefit me and my family?

How will it make your lives better?

How will it make your financial future more secure?

The answer is: it won't. And however much they argue, however much they shout, they absolutely cannot win on this point. Good luck and hope the rest of your birthday is lovely.

FAQ · 16/04/2008 14:27

ooo - I didn't know it was your birthday on Sunday .

crackinggoodegg · 16/04/2008 14:33

Sorry, haven't read every post in great detail so excuse me if this has been said already.

Apart from all the other reasons not to do this, one of the key questions on a Buy-to-Let application form is whether you intend to rent the property to a family member - basically you CAN'T - they won't approve the mortgage so you would be lying about that as well as everything else.

Steer well clear - this is not the time to be getting into buy-to-let, honestly or otherwise.

CarGirl · 16/04/2008 14:44

just ensure that you and your dh get the needle stuck together stating "we've looked into both option, we cannot do either it's fraud" repeat repeat, ignore all tantrums and repeat back.

"we've looked into both options, we cannot legally do either I'm afraid, it's fraud we are not prepared to go to prison for you"

repeat, repeat - if it gets nasty gather your children up and leave.

Please tell me that they are not coming to your house?

SheSellsSanctury · 16/04/2008 17:55

Good Luck for Sunday. And have a lovely birthday

madmuggle · 16/04/2008 19:49

Do not let this discussion take place in your home. You need to be able to walk away if needs be. Best plan is to have neutral territory, so they don't feel as though they have the upper hand.

Most of all, good luck!

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