Driving medical - depression

[Wonderfulday]

My son applied for his provisional driving license and had to go for a medical as he was on anti-depressants. His own GP and his CAMHS counsellor gave their statement to say he was stable and his condition nor his medication would have any impact on his ability to drive. HOWEVER he was still subjected to a medical by the driving agency which asked questions about my marriage, where we happy couple, what relationship did he have with siblings, they asked about the reason he self harmed, how deep the cuts were, where on his body he cut, why he had depression, what does he talk to his counsellor about, how was his school life, they didn't accept generic answers, they pushed and pushed. What relevance does any of that have on his ability to drive! I was expecting questions like, does your medication make you drowsy, have you thoughts of harming others etc AIBU to take this further as in a complaint?? Surely if the people treating him for years say he is stable they should accept that without making him divulge personal issues to a complete stranger about things that happened when he was about 15!!! I am so furious that he was put through this!

My friend had died with this. Her licence was taken away for another medical reason. But when she could get it back it took ages, because she had depression and trauma, due to the death of her husband at the start of COVID lockdown, when she wasn't allowed to be with him at the end. The DVLA were worried she'd use the car as a suicide method. (She wouldn't)

You can guess away, it doesn't make you right. I'm not some daft mum that thinks the sun shines from his arse and he does no wrong, like I said he doesn't lie to me, he has no need to do and I am fully aware of everything. This post wasn't to question my son or me, merely to ask did people agree that the questions were unreasonable

She died?? Was that a typo, if not I'm so 😔

It will be self harm or risk of suicide that they are picking up on.
It's literally their job to make sure there is no risk of suicide or self harm on the roads otherwise they would be held liable.
I have to go through these assessments every year to renew my license (bi polar) and it's frustrating but unfortunately necessary & if you look at it from the other side - if your son had been killed by an unfit driver - you would feel differently.

That is why I think he ticked the wrong box when applying for his license.
You tick the box about medical issues under advice from your GP.

This is why the medical was thorough, because you appealed their initial decision. They need to gather enough evidence to change their decision. Why couldn’t you wait until he had been on the medication for three monrhs? Side effects don’t always show up straight away, that’s why they have the three month clause.

You keep saying you don’t see how his mental health is relevant to his ability to drive. You seem to be overlooking the fact that a car is a lethal weapon and the authorities have to be certain he is safe to drive. The rules and procedures are there for a reason. And I say this as someone who wasn’t allowed to drive for 12 years due to anorexia.

Do they ask you these types of questions every year? It took him a long time to open up to his current psychiatrist so he found discussing it with "a stranger" quite difficult, is this something he just has to accept he will have to do?

Depression alone is not a reason to refuse a driving licence.
It could be argued that 3 months is not long enough to assess side effects
Medicals are carried out by independent assessors and supporting evidence from GPs is not taken into account
Sectioning under the MH is an immediate no.

No you don't, well here in Northern Ireland you don't, it has a list of disorders/diseases that you tick yes or no to, and this is on the basic application form, he ticked yes to depression

I didn't say MH wasn't relevant, of course I understand the "why" behind it, what I don't understand is the questioning around his self harming which stopped when he was 15, or the questions around my marriage etc

Yes. It does feel intrusive but it's a good test of whether he is mature & sensible enough & moved on from it enough to be considered safe on the road.
In the kindest possible way if he can't assure the assessor that he is recovered & stable then he might need to wait a bit longer before driving.

It depends on how stable you are as to whether you are passed as fit to drive or whether you have to renew every year, or every 3 or 5.

Thank u for posting this op ..just about to apply for my dd’s and never realised she might be asked these sort of q’s .here’s what’s on the web page : Do you have or have you ever had any of the following medical conditions?

• Diabetes controlled by insulin (no need to notify us if you have diabetes controlled by diet, tablets or other injections unless you experience hypoglycemia requiring the assistance of another person)
• Epilepsy
• Any condition affecting both eyes, or the remaining eye if you only have one eye
• Any condition affecting your visual field or acuity (apart from wearing glasses or corrective lenses)
• Total loss of sight in one eye
• Stroke with any symptoms lasting longer than one month
• Fits or blackouts
• Any type of brain surgery, severe head injury involving in-patient treatment, or a brain tumour
• An implanted cardiac pacemaker
• An implanted cardiac defibrillator (ICD)
• Repeated attacks of sudden disabling giddiness
• Any other chronic neurological condition including Multiple Sclerosis, Motor Neurone and Huntington's Disease
• A serious problem with memory or periods of confusion
• Persistent alcohol misuse or dependence
• Persistent drug misuse or dependence
• Serious psychiatric illness or mental ill health
• Parkinson's Disease
• Narcolepsy
• Obstructive Sleep Apnoea Syndrome
• Any persisting limb problem which needs driving to be restricted to certain types of vehicles with adapted controls
• Severe learning disability

…..we also may have an issue because of historic mental health issues so I appreciate you posting!

To be honest I am more annoyed than he is, he was fine in the assesment and answered everything, he just said he felt uncomfortable being so open with someone he had literally only met, I am the one getting riled up, but that's because I know what he has went through and how well he has done to get to where he is (I would never encourage him to learn to drive of I thought he was a risk to himself or others)maybe I just need to take a step back and let it be

Ok, in the UK you only tick the box about disorders under advice from your GP.
Given the amount of people in the UK on AD, no one would be driving.

Because they need a full picture on which to base a decision. The assessor will have had a set list of questions. If you hadn’t appealed he probably wouldn’t have been subjected to this and they’d have accepted his doctors evidence once he had been on the medication for the required time.

That's not completely true. Section isn't an immediate no & many people return to driving quickly after being sectioned. You do have to inform DVLA & your consultant may tell you not to drive but it isn't automatic.

This post wasn't to question my son or me, merely to ask did people agree that the questions were unreasonable

Nobody here can say whether the questions were unreasonable because nobody here knows your son's psychiatric history or how he presented at his medical.

I would imagine that, as medical professionals, they asked him questions which they felt were important to assess the nature of his condition and his current mental state. Perhaps questions about his family relationships etc could be part of that? It doesn't seem unreasonable to me, on the face of it. I appreciate that his own doctor had provided information too, but for whatever reason it presumably wasn't sufficient for them to make a decision.

Obviously, they weren't asking him these questions for fun. They're not out to get him. There's no personal vendetta and they have no reason to treat him any differently from anyone else with his history who presented as he did at his medical. So they would have had a good reason to ask him those questions - if, indeed, they did ask those questions, which we currently only have your son's word for because there's no transcript yet.

You come across as being angry and volatile and I'm not sure that's going to be very helpful for your son, who would probably benefit from a calmer and more proportionate approach to this. Reassure him, wait for the transcript and deal with this calmly rather than going off all guns blazing and jumping to conclusions without any foundation.

If they aren't on medication or have been on it for more than 3 months with no side effects I would say they will be fine, in hindsight we should have waited and applied for his provisional once he had been medicated for more than 3 months then this wouldn't have been an issue

But you don't understand the why because you’re asking ‘why’ about specific questions. It probably does feel invasive but they are questions honed over time on the basis of risks that previous drivers have presented. They are trying to keep him and other road users (and pedestrians for that matter) safe. If he was self harming and had a suicidal ideation two years ago that’s really the blink of an eye. My sister tried to commit suicide on several occasions in her late teens, she’s 44 now and believe you me we jump anytime the phone rings at an odd hour, these things can easily resurface. If he wants to drive then he’ll have to prepare himself for this type of questioning. You may feel it’s unwarranted, but as I say, it’s a process refined over time based on the evidence of previous tragic cases. I’m sure loads of people get annoyed by the drink driving limit - my aunt was killed by a drunk driver, I never even sniff wine if I am driving, we are not very good creatures at estimating our own impairments.

No you don’t.

@Wonderfulday thanks, my DD’s self harming & psych /camhs input was a result of undiagnosed adhd for which she is now medicated so it’s trying to work out what to mention in the form. But I would equally be miffed in someone asking those sort of questions to a minor when they were unprepared to be asked and had no parental support.

I think the preparedness is a good point. But being a minor isn’t, kids can see a GP by themselves at any age, there is no legal prerequisite.

@Wonderfulday sorry. It was a typo. It should have said that she had this.

If you knew me you would know that I am not angry or volatile, but I understand it is hard to know someone's character by a few posts on an post like this. I suppose I am upset at what my son has had to go through to get his license, and I fully appreciate the DVA having to assess risk, I don't argue that, but I honestly thought his own GP and his own psychiatrist would have been better equipped to make that decision than someone who only speaks to him for 15 mins in one appointment, how can that be an accurate account of his mental health? If DVA make their decision in a 15 min interview then we all should be worried surely??

I was thinking that but was scared to say as a previous poster commented that he shouldn't be driving at all if he needs parental involvement 😬