Worried about low contact in-laws gate crashing hols, how do we leave without seeming bad guys

[Holidayworry1]

We are very low contact (lc) with dh parents.
He doesn't go over there and as a family we last went about maybe 4 or 5 Xmas es ago.

We have tried over the years to have a relationship, but unfortunately they don't change their behaviour. Small examples, getting moody, cross when anything was suggested to them eg, please check the car lock is on dd opens the door in motion.
Turn up and as they pull up dd is opening the door and mil lied and said it's because she pressed the release button inside. Even though it was clearly explained to them the lock is on the inside and it's a lever.

Potty training, ignoring requests not to change dd into a nappy, which they did as soon as she got there and in front of older dc who told us.

Not supervising properly around a deep pond, and on and on.
On top of this, all the small things as well they totally disregarded but mil speaking to me and dh in an unpleasant way.. They always seem to incredibly disappointed in him, never been respectful to him nor me.. Unfortunately my family is mostly deceased otherwise they wouldn't have seen us for dust.
They act superior and always try to tell us how to make our house nicer like theirs ( 6 bed 4 bath house in 2 acres south) how to get free trips through work don't pay ( of course not a family trip), mil rearranges our house, says things arnt in suitable places, and has cried over what she considers to be filth.
They also act like we are depriving our dc if a great childhood etc. And she constantly says in a horrid tone about all the extra lessons she paid for dh to have as if it's a massive deal for her.

Sorry if you have got this far, we are visiting dh family in another country and I'm concerned the in laws will turn up or already be there..
In the past when we went out for dh granny milestone bday, we made it clear we didn't want to go for the main meal but would visit after.

We arrived and they sprang out. They spoke about themselves as usual, mil did lots of crying and martyr behaviour. We did give them anther chance after this but quickly reverted to type.
Then they did say if dh wanted to visit relatives abroad they would go at alternatives times.. However I'm concerned they havant turned up at our door which they normal do when school finishes which makes me suspicious that they may spring out on us.We don't want to worry a granny whose nealry 100 with this or cause issues.

All this unpleasant stuff happened when dc much younger so when they see in laws they seem like sweet people standing on our door step.

How do we smoothly extract ourselves without upsetting old gran, without seeming like the bad guys and without bowing to fils pressure.
He gives me heart palpitations, makes me feel extremely nervous etc because he doesn't seem human. He asks me how I am but I feel like it's the terminator asking before shooting me.

It's our holiday and of course they may not turn up. We intended to stay with two different relatives but I think we could find last min accmd if necessary.

We can't afford to book alternatives now, but if our backs were to the wall I guess we would have too.
On the trip where they sprang out they took over everything, eg at a zoo we all said we fancied a donut (to each other), fil and mil started to take over and said they would get it dh pushed back and said no I will.. He eventually backed down and fil got something else entirely?

He's often done this. Looking back of course we shld have handed it back and got our donuts but when your in these situations they are fast moving and you don't what to cause a fuss.

Sorry this is a long ramble.

What do we say.

Not me. They sound bat shit and a total nightmare!

The big mistake is staying with relatives. You've acknowledged they talk to and visit MIL and FIL. They will tell them whatever, invite them in, and it will be their house their rules. All you can do is book to go independently, without committing to plans of dates/times so they can't lie in wait.

Honestly you say granny is only one that cares about DH, why you staying with them then?

Ok I think I understand the type of man your FIL is. Here's the thing - grey rock is built for men like this. Grey rock, bye granny, swift exit.

Don't engage. You can't win. I had a friend like your FIL so I understand. He was neurodivergent (but he was also traumatised, a narcissist and a sociopath). But you don't need to be afraid, you just need to be ready to walk away. Grey rock, no drama, no showdown. Pleasant goodbyes, off you go.

@redskydarknight
Fil is supremely in control he won't loose his temper, but it would be aksing for hugs which kind of disarms people

Asking to have a chat, why not etc.

I also don't want to let rip, I've never responded or told them what I think of them!

Squirrel my poor dh did grey rock when I first met him, he did it as a survival stragety he didn't know what it was.

I think your right, try and keep breezy and if he says can we chat or go for walk etc.. Try and keep breezy " but fil this is our holiday, we have not come here to have difficult chats that could have happened years ago, bye"

He can ask for hugs, each of you can refuse, and back each other up.
Say No Thanks, break eye contact, move on.

Well it’s difficult to respond really because of course you shouldn’t really be going. DH should be going alone.

Unfortunately you have set yourself up for more unpleasantness. All you can do is leave immediately.

I don’t know how old your DC are, but if they are school age, they are old enough to understand (in advance) that some people appear to be nice and kind, but are actually horrible.

Don’t mention the difficulty of the chats, just say No Thanks, break eye contact, move on.

Too much engagement. Grey rock. "We must go, lovely seeing you all, bye bye."

I really do understand this type Once Granny has passed away, you'll probably visit less often.

OP I don’t know if you’re meaning to come across this way but you sound petrified of them? You and DH are a united front and have nothing to be worried about. They’re not going to ‘spring out’, they will potentially be there. Your posts make it sound like you’re actually worried about them attacking you.

If MIL and FIL cause a scene, let them, how embarrassing for them.

If MIL and FIL start ranting and raving let them, look at them with an awkward look/raised eyebrows say ‘alright… anyway…’ and turn away to talk about something else with DH.

You both need to stop biting at all of their little jabs and comments. Channel your worry and nerves into just being mortified by/for them. It’s a mistake to be staying with family because surely you knew you were going to have this worry? Stay a night with granny if DH really needs to but try book somewhere else before you go.

Dh cousin is also v nice so we are hoping to see her and the dc see her.
But we won't visit at all once granny goes.
Granny lives in warden type place with bedroom for visitors.

I think this is really important @Holidayworry1 because men like your FIL don't like losing. As your kids get older it's easier for FIL to contact them directly through social media etc. Explain what he is like. Superficial charm and lovebombing will be his initial strategy.

Don't you think it would be a good idea to forewarn ths DC though? You seem concerned what the DC will think of your behaviour. Have you explained anything to them at all to give them context for how you might behave? If you do - especially if you explain about MIL turning on the waterworks - they'll be more likely to understand than be puzzled or judge you.

Also, perhaps they need this information to protect themselves, so they're not completely blindsided by your PIL's imperious, demeaning behaviours?

@SquirrelSoShiny you've definitely got him he definitely doesn't like loosing, mil said to me once he likes to win at any cost.

And yes he has a good initial energy that swans fun n

My advice would be for you to stop staying with relatives.
Stay in a local hotel - then you can excuse yourselves as you have to return to put the kids to bed/have your meal/whatever.
You can arrange to meet up with relatives when you're there but contact will be brief and manageable.

Your DH needs to speak up when his relatives trample all over your boundaries - boundaries that I'd imagine no one else when you go visiting manage to trample over so he needs to have words with the relatives as and when it happens and there has to be consequences from their actions, such as you guys leaving and them not being able to spend time with you/your kids. Remove yourselves from the situation.

That's what I would do.

"How do we smoothly extract ourselves without upsetting old gran, without seeming like the bad guys"

By not worrying about what they or others think of you, you can't control what others do, think or feel.

Yeah I can see them from space now to be honest. It was actually the greatest gift that came out of that friendship (which hurt me a great deal at the time).

Another good strategy- ignore your natural instinct to talk up your children. Let them appear low status in your FIL's eyes. Invisibility is protective around your FIL. Being a lovely shiny light will mean he seeks them out to reflect in their glory AND then feels a pathological need to bring them lower.

It's easy to portray your FIL as a monster but there's basically a tiny terrified child hiding behind lots of walls in an adult sized shell. BUT - and this is crucial - understanding this puts you at risk of feeling compassion for him - and he will exploit it. So don't. Grey rock.

One more fun fact - any attempt to assert any boundary will bring accusations of how you are controlling etc. 'You will never control me!' Which is hilarious because they are basically projecting their own controlling natures onto others and reacting to not being allowed to dictate.

You've never met people like this before, have you? They indulge in behaviour that makes you think you are going mad. Makes you second guess yourself. Makes you worry and fret and wonder what on earth you'll do if they suddenly show up.

I had a family member like this. Many of the things OP wrote in her first post resonated so much. I ended up going NC ten years ago and let me tell you, it's been worth every minute. These people do not respect boundaries. They play mind games. Then they turn around and act all hurt when you call them out on it. They play the victim.

It's got nothing to do with weapons, but I know you know that. The only weapon these people need is their mouths, brains, and nastiness.

I’m sorry if this sounds harsh Op , but you want the impossible .

• to be LC with your PIL but to stay in some sort of relationship with your PIL family who are on your PIlLs side

• to spend time as house guests of members of PIL family but to control who else they invite to their house

• to manage things for your husbands sake, so he doesn’t have to stand up to his parents , without you having to stand up to them

• for other family members and your own children to not consider you rude if you do something that ordinarily would be rude.

Please PLEASE understand , I am not criticising you. I can see why you are doing it and I also understand why you are scared of them, I have been in a similar situation myself. It’s easy for an outsider to say that your fears are not rational , but manipulative and controlling people can make you feel 5 years old again .

I say this kindly - what is holding you back is your own beliefs.

1. that you can have all these impossible and mutually contradictory things above
2. that seeing unpleasant and unkind family members is better than no family at all
3. that you can protect you husband from having to do all the emotional work of dealing with the fear , obligation and guilt of his toxic family. But this is something he needs to do himself, with the support of a counsellor and perhaps a self help group .
4. that what other random people think of your is more important than peace and harmony in your own marriage and home.

You said yourself that the only person who cares about your Dh is elderly granny in a home. So he should visit her, then after she dies he never needs to see any of them again.

Just drop the rope.

Yes when OP said a little more I realised what she was up against and believe me I know the type well. Grey rock and avoiding them are all anyone can do.

@SquirrelSoShiny.

Before we realised and went very lc, unfortunately one dc is doing extremely well but the other is doing well in different ways and again fil can't grasp or understand that. So again another reason to stop contact we've had to build dc 2 up in herself to get confidence and I don't want fil knocking that.. They have absolutely taken any good stuff from dc directly as a result of themselves and he has been genuinely puzzled when they have been good at stuff he has not been good at.

Re later on sm or phones, I am concerned he is going to pressure older dd when she goes to uni etc but older dc also has good boundaries and is happy to say no.

Squirrel, thank you for your understanding it's really helpful and I'm sorry about your friend.

@HaveABlastOfThisMatrix yes, it's awful isn't it.

It took me many years to realise these people don't play fair, they fight dirty.

@Rhaidimiddim yes I have not wanted to mar this trip with going on about them however, I do think I should briefly warn them and warned them about mils water Works and us leaving.