AIBU to think that I shouldn't have bothered working and paying into National Insurance for the 35 years I have done so?

[HauntedBungalow]

When all I will get is the bare State Pension. Whereas other people who did not make these contributions and/or did not work will get Pension Credit plus all the other nice little add ons like Council Tax Support, free boilers and now Winter Fuel Allowance? AIBU to think I'm a mug for bothering to work all those years?

Downsizing when you're still in late middle age (60s say) is definitely a good idea, yes. The downside to owning a house beyond that is that the elderly can't cope as easily with repairs and maintenance and it all becomes quite expensive.

Yeah that’s absolute nonsense to blame Labour . I have a friend who was unemployed until 2016 - so she was unemployed through both Labour and Tory governments - and since 2016 has worked maximum 16 hour a week even though her kids are now 13+. I known she’s getting a load of benefits which is why she won’t work full time, and she has a council house in London with a lifetime tenancy. Her partner does irregular cash in hand type work. 3 kids and all the services they use and what are they paying in? Very little.

I’m not even criticising them, they’re doing what works for them. But my point is this is the system that existed under 14 years of Tory rule as well.

Also have a friend who couldn’t be arsed with the stress from rude employers so managed to sign of sick since 2017 and got her own place. Goes on hols twice a year. Said she’ll never go back to work.

IHT - hah,hah - I was the only one of the 3 of us sisters who had no problem paying this Tax on my DM's unearned bequeath to us.

DM was a Teacher for less than 20 years (old-style Teacher's Pension), one sister was a nurse and the other a very underused Civil Servant for a few years - none of them could rationalize that their salaries, sick pay, holiday pay, pension contributions and various forms of paid leave were paid from the 'public purse' eg: taxes. Such as IHT, which as an equal beneficiary, I had no problem paying.

some elderly maybe….but maybe not….my mum downsized at 80…..she’s 88 now….living her best life in a lovely 2 bed bungalow…..150k equity from downsizing ……plus her state pension and her private pension ( she worked for British rail) and some of my dads state pension ( he died before pension age) , she can easily afford to pay for any maintenance for her home

They are people who know exactly how to play the system and have done it for years

its sad. Many people on benefits are struggling and getting sanctions left right and centre which has led to suicides in some cases. But then at the other extreme some people do know how to play the system. It’s very weird.

The Tories weren’t able to deal with this problem effectively or humanely, I hope Labour can.

One issue is the low wage economy we have And selling off all the housing stock . People need to be paid more and there needs to be more social housing so all our tax doesn’t go to landlords via housing benefit

Agree. There is no point working hard or trying to save money in the UK.

The country is designed for people who don't want to work. If you want any other than the bare minimum in this country people hate you, on mumsnet you get castigated for trying to save or get ahead. There is no point going through the stress of earning money and paying taxes or god forbid starting a business or saving for the future.

As for downsizing - most bungalows are at 'premium' price here in the SW - I still aim to downsize or be mortgage-free by the time I retire (just 5 years to go) but I think realstically I'm looking at a 'plot' with PP and I've got 2+years in a caravan/static to start with the building a building part of the process.

As, when I reach my retirement on only the full state pension at 67, I want to spend my time gardening and not shuffling around in a flat; so far with 5 years to go, I still seem physically and mentally capable to consider such things.

Although I'm very poor financially.

as a single woman with no kids I was entitled to nothing …maybe I should have just popped a few out and then I wouldn’t have to have worried about working and paying tax and NI, my council tax and rent etc

This in spades

I remember being on multiple zero hour contracts calling them every day and getting. No hours and then trying to sign on benefits for a few months until I went back to retrain at uni. For reasons I’ll never understand I wasn’t eligible for JSA. I was absolutely fuming especially as I knew multiple people my age (late twenties) who had various kids from age 18 and had never worked a day since, and here I was struggling to pay for the room in my grotty flatshare after a couple of months out of full time work since I was denied JSA. Thankfully I still got housing benefit it so I was to scrape through for a couple more months before admitting defeat and moving in with an older sibling in another city . But for single people who don’t that have option, if they don’t have kids, they’re screwed

I don't think you have a clue.

The tax reforms the UK is making will kill economic growth.

Work has to pay more than not working. Working is not a choice.

If the benefits system is so generous compared to working that people stop work or never even start then the country has a big problem.

Benefits should not be generous. They need to incentivise work. People on benefits need to be worse off than people that work. There has to be a reason to work.

There has to be negative consequences from not working

Absolutely this

As for not popping a kid out, Claire Short (a politician that has earned my great respect) got her kid adopted so she could carry on unemcumbered in a male-dominated world.

So, so easy to come out with daft, critical comments about how others live - until the day dawns when the unexpected happens to you. Because, chances are it will no matter how smug anyone feels....now.

That is life, it deals most a 'curve ball' or two, so no one should be too smug as it might put people off helping you when the shit hits the fan.

I actually think the winter allowance shouldn't be for all pensioners. It should be means tested.

1.We were at 2 dinner parties when 2 couples were gloating that they had two extra holidays over seas. Paid for by cost of living help and winter allowances. They retired in their early 50s from banking and another non contributing pension. They also had other pensions from their consultancy work where they paid in 60% and the government topped it up by 40%.
It should be means tested.

2.Also, we live in Hampshire and rarely get particularly cold.
Maybe the further North you live the more likely you should get winter fuel allowance as you actually need it.

3.On care cost. We had to sell our mums homes for their care.
We were grateful that they were well cared for rather than expecting an inheritance. They worked for that money and home and should be used to help them.

Many older people are cut back on necessities. As they feel or persuaded that they need to pass on their home or other assets to family.

1. No one knows whats round the corner and may need help from the state. Illnesses, unemployment,giving up work to care for loved ones.

1. Many people , like our Dads never made it to retirement age.

I agree there should be some consequences to not working. But part of the problem is a lot of benefits are paid to people in work. We need to pay people more, so taxpayers aren’t subsidising employers. You should be able to work full time and not worry about being worse off than if you were working 16 hours.
A related issue is the high rents which is costing us so much in housing benefits.

There does need to be some personal responsibility though. I mean a childhood friend I knew had a kid from one guy who ended up being a deadbeat (that immediately signed on disability after she left and has been on it since then) so she got no child support. But then she went ahead and had two more kids with a new partner while both her and her partner were on benefits. Her new partner had 5 other kids from 3 previous partners that he wasn’t paying for either 😵‍💫

Too many people are either thoughtless or entitled. In situations like that people are effectively saying “hey we're going to have (more) kids and we’ve decided the taxpayer will pay for all of it!”

That said I don’t know if it’s going to make my life better or not, if benefits are cut for others, but it would certainly enhance my life is my wages were increased.

I'm no economist but I’d really welcome ideas on why wages are so low in the UK and what can be done?

Stephen Hawking was disabled, but amazing at Science. So, your point doesn't stand.

You have life, opportunity and health. My Dad died at 58. He worked as a teacher and a lecturer in the evenings for the Open University. He paid in all his life, but didn't even get to pensionable age.

Count your blessings.

It's a tricky one!
We can't (if we claim to be a civilised society) let people fall into destitution/abject poverty. And so we need to have safety nets. But those safety nets also reduce some of the incentive for people to take responsibility for themselves.
Also, as said by others, most people are well aware of how easy it is to cheat/play the system. When the proportion of society who are known to be 'cheating' rises above a certain level there can be an inflexion point where playing by the rules is no longer the rational option.

part of the problem is a lot of benefits are paid to people in work. We need to pay people more, so taxpayers aren’t subsidising employers. You should be able to work full time and not worry about being worse off than if you were working 16 hours
@Wordysmith, I agree with this. The boundaries between paid work & benefits have been blurred and receiving benefits has become the norm.
Too many 'perverse incentives'!

YANBU op but don’t expect any sympathy from liberal lefty Mumsnet because there won’t be any.

How is it a troll to point out a successful Scientist that's disabled? He was a great model. Straight to name calling, very mature!

This is one of the reasons I don't understand why people bang on about pension (of course, save) but majority won't live to enjoy it. Growing old is a privilege to be grateful, not a right. Enjoy life in the moment without going into debt. No one knows how long they will live. I'm quite young, I'm not even sure I will reach pension age as my grandparents died quite young and had cancer. I'm just thankful I am healthy and can work, alongside save into pension.

Should we live for the moment & not worry about being poor when elderly?
Or do you mean we should be grateful if we reach old age and not complain if we are poor.
Then again being poor makes it more likely you wont reach old age- so that kind of solves itself🤷🏻‍♀

Can’t you make your point in a coherent manner without writing essays?