WFH vs Hybrid

[Wishing4SummerSun]

Just read a post that got me thinking about working from home vs hybrid working

Prior to covid I never WFH and throwing children into nursery then jumping on a train to work ... 5 days a week

Fast forward 4 years in the same job but now hybrid coming into office 2 days a week - for me if it is great. I can drop kids off at school am not picking them late from after school etc it just works well and I enjoy my 2 days in the office as I am out the house and talking to other adults (even if it is about boring work stuff)

So here is my AIBU there is a generational divide emerging where most the younger (generally early 30s and under no kids) complaining they have to come in at all - the more ahem ... mature team are more happy to come in with a few exceptions who are generally pretty lazy and would be off all the the time if they had to come in for all their hours. We have some people who very rarely come as they live further afield and were hired during COVID where our HR department seemed to think distance was no object BUT now the two days have been introduced we wouldn't be able to hire someone who lived 4 hours away and therefore couldn't travel in for 2 days a week (unless they have accommodation and could do the 2 days at once). I think we have a good deal - workplace is flexible in terms of hours, working patterns and to enable some semblance of a team the 2 days is very helpful but ... I am old compared to the younger staff and don't look to socialise much outside of work but early in my career I did and it benefited me greatly in terms of friendships and career development opportunities afforded to me by turning up to work

Notwithstanding reasonable adjustments AIBU that 2 days a week hybrid is not excessive or am i a dinosaur that should accept no one wants see other people during day and WFH 100% of the time
Worth mentioning salaries are decent and most people in our work, as nice as they are, are not specialists and not an 'in demand' industry

I'm totally with you as for me it's the best of both worlds. I like the social element and there's some work which is just more easily done in person.

I was hired on a hybrid contract but have been working from home full time (no pressure to come in and a lot of people in my team only required to come in for duties they cannot reasonably perform at home). I have a separate office so it would be more or less lone working for me anyway plus the travel. It doesn’t exactly make it appealing. I come in for team events and necessary tasks but, typically only 5-6 times a year.
I was catching up with some work friends over lunch on Saturday and everyone is finding coming in exhausting even though none of us have more than 30 min drive to the office. Our ages range between 40s and late 50s. Some of us have tweens and teens, some - children who have just left home.
I have a house full and if I had to go to the office, I wouldn’t never have time alone in the house and it is important for me to recharge my social batteries. I did enjoy working in the office full time but I was exhausted by Thursday. Now I can actually function at weekends and don’t feel like locking myself in a dark room away from everyone.
So I don’t think it is generational. It’s just that some people handle social aspect of the office better than others.

Personally I think that two days out of five in the office is the sweet spot - both because I prefer it personally and because I think it works well.

From a personal pov - it’s a nice balance between not having to commute more often than that, and saving that bit of time, but also getting to see colleagues twice a week. Also I think there are some tasks that are done better in person, sitting down with colleagues, and some tasks that are better done in peace and quiet.

From a business pov - it bridges the gap between the need to cut down on the overheads involved in having an office big enough for everyone all at once and the need for people new to whatever industry it is to spend time with colleagues, learning the ropes. I think it’s hard to work with colleagues you never meet in person

I live hybrid working. Now Jacob R Mogg has no input, wfh should continue

I agree 40% in office is perfect. However, I really get pissed off at the whinging bastards who complain about having to attend in person at all. In some workplaces they will ruin the hybrid model for all by their carrying on as if they are being asked to go down a fucking mine without safety gear for a 12 hour shift instead of showing!up to work in an urban office. Management having to deal with complaints about attending, complaints about those shirking attending must br a real time suck.

I cannot get over how, if 4 years ago someone said “hey two days in office, three days at home, instead of five days in office” everyone would’ve been rejoicing.

Now it’s an imposition (in fact grounds for a grievance!) to ask employees to show up occasionally. Crazy.

I go in one day a week and mostly don't mind it. I could very easily WFH full time though.

@Catza I get what you are saying to a point but there is a niggle for me in what you are saying that's reflects where you are in your life. Your older, have children and (and I assume) are working 5 days - if that is the case is hybrid not a better solution than having to drop hours to deal with the life outside of work? I also think back to a comment a colleague made a couple of years ago where they commented that they were able to paint their fence during the day and picked up work later. I was sad to hear that as I was doing my time during the day and not picking when I felt like working so I could do some DIY. I think that is where I am having an issue is the lack of discipline (although that is definitely not a generational issue - fly people of all ages exist) - if you work in a situation where WFH is possible then you have a massive privilege - you can't do that if you work in Asda, drive a taxi, have a caring job, work in hospitality etc. I am linking back to what I was saying earlier that for those who started their careers in a full time site attendance set up against that for those coming up who may be missing out not just on experiences but relationships etc - whether we like it or not work is a part of our life and my life is better for, the sometimes, very different people I get to interact with - even the ones that are challenging who I can handle as through working I've developed that skill

I disagree with you that it is a generational thing.

I prefer to wfh and I am coming up to retirement. I don't see the point in adding 2.5 - 3 hours a day of sitting in traffic around a working day when I don't need to collaborate with anyone in the office, to do my job.
When I started wfh (many years before covid) I felt incredibly privileged, and I did record my hours to the minute. If I left my laptop to go to the toilet, or to put the kettle on, I 'stopped the clock' - which of course no-one does in the office. But it also meant I could hang a wash out, or prep the evening meal, as anything like that was 'off the clock'. It did also mean that it was / is very easy to sit down in the evening and do another couple of hours.
So much of this depends on what your job is, obviously, but if you don't need to meet with people (in person, or virtually) and you are not supposed to be answering calls, then why would it be a problem if someone ran and errand / did something in the garden / went to their child's assembly or sports day, as long as they did their hours over the week ?

People are lazy. The younger the lazier. Of course they dont want to make the effort to come in when.

I prefer to wfh and I am coming up to retirement. I don't see the point in adding 2.5 - 3 hours a day of sitting in traffic around a working day when I don't need to collaborate with anyone in the office, to do my job.

This is the problem with certain folk (similar generation interestingly) that I work with.

they just will not come in, because they have decided all on their own that they “don’t need to collaborate with anyone in the office, to do my job”.

Did you decide that all on your own @NewName24? Is your line manager and teammates comfortable with that , or are they having to put up with it because they know they cannot challenge you ever?

I personally struggle with situations where team mates who were perfectly happy to come in before, just ignore any invitations to have workshop sessions In office. These are the same folk who also never switch on their camera. Who rarely speak in Teams calls.

I love hybrid. I worked from home for a good seven years before the pandemic, then got a new job in 2022. I love have the best of both worlds. Going into the office is invaluable for building relationships, I can say that with experience. I'd never want to go to an office full-time but 2-3 days in an office? Yep, that's perfect.

Did you decide that all on your own ? Is your line manager and teammates comfortable with that , or are they having to put up with it because they know they cannot challenge you ever?

Wow, I don't know if you are projecting there, or just making stuff up, but no, that really isn't my situation at all.

Yes, line manager more than happy.
Yes, team mates all happy.
Of course they could challenge me if there were something needing challenging, but we all work together really well. There is nothing to be gained by me being in the office, other than the Team meeting Day about once every 3 months. Nor, indeed, for most of my colleagues.

I personally struggle with situations where team mates who were perfectly happy to come in before, just ignore any invitations to have workshop sessions In office. These are the same folk who also never switch on their camera. Who rarely speak in Teams calls.

Once again, you might be describing a situation you are aware of, but you certainly are NOT describing me, my team, or my work.
a) I don't ignore invitations
b)I always switch on my camera
c) I always speak whenever I am on Teams - be a bit pointless being part of the call otherwise.

As I said - these things completely depend on your job.

In my workplace it’s also the 30ish and under folk who are least keen to come in even a day or two a week. Cat needs fed 7 times a day, parcel arriving, lost my shoes…

I find it really selfish. They don’t care if others would prefer to have occasional face-to-face interactions instead of going goggle eyed at a screen all day every day.

Op (and others) what do you all do?

Id love to change career to something hybrid or wfh but it's a big leap!

Hybrid works well for me. I can do most of my job remotely but there is stuff that needs to be done on-site. Plus there's some things that are just easier to sort out with a few colleagues round a whiteboard.

I guess it depends partly where the office is. Given the housing crisis, I can totally understand people needing to live much further away and coming in being a large expense and taking ages. The other key factor is whether coming in actually accomplishes anything or is just a tick box.

You say something @NewName24 that really struck with me - you could sit down in the evening to catch up. This is something we struggle with in my workplace is people working over their hours to 'catch up' at night and the problem is when you are a manager or part of team this then becomes the culture/expectation and this has massive implications on stress and well-being. If you're coming up for retirement and this works then that's brilliant but I caution that you've had a whole working life and that now includes encouraging a new generation coming up and if your attitude is 'it works for me' is that really nurturing people coming through?? Would it not be better so they can achieve the balance that works for them in the future but realize what is needed to move forward. Anyone who is going to progress at work and who doesn't have a very specialized role will mostly do so by managing a team of staff and the people skills needed to do that - there is no better way to effectively do that then in person. An example I heard from a friend whose line manager is based in the USA (they are in the UK) had a family crisis and who do you think they spoke to first - people in the UK site they worked in - the call to the American manager came after - I don't think there is a right answer when it comes to WFH and it is based on job role etc but those of us who are established need to more honest about what you need to progress on a role where WFH is now the norm

@HungryWombat for a national UK charity - would definitely say T&Cs with charities can veer on extremes from excellent (mines are very very good) to non existent - so proceed with caution. In a job description id always want to know about annual leave and flexible working and crucially their pension % contribution - my rule now is has to more than I would reasonably put in (my DP pays 6% and employer pays 3% nae chance id take that now)

Hybrid working is a game changer. I also do up to 2 days in the physical office. The only thing I don’t like about it is that I have to bring my company laptop to work and plug into a docking station. It works well enough, but lugging the laptop back and forth on public transport is an annoying commute.

In our company the in office devotees are usually single men of all ages or younger staff in their 20s.

I think what I struggle with is that you say you're older and you like the set up and because you have experience you know better than the youth who don't like it nd who you consider to be less worldy and therefore their opinion is less valid.

Their opinion doesn't impact your company policy so leave them to it. It's easy to be happy woth the status quo when you are actually happy with the status quo.

Reading over these another thing came back to me which is wider than the choice of WFH - in the UK where I am most people don't live in huge houses with spare rooms that can be the 'office' - I live in a 3 bed semi and work from the kitchen table - no chance I'll have an office space until one of DC move out (which is many years away) - another reason why hybrid works for me anyway as I feel less that work encroaches on my home where tbh I just want to forget about work

@EatTheGnome I disagree as the issue is wider than what works for me and youth = inexperience . I am genuinely concerned about the missed opportunities my younger colleagues are having because of a working style that has now become normalized by people who were conditioned to work another way i.e my generation and older - I'm in my early 40s so (sadly) have many more years of work ahead but I'm also now experienced enough to see beyond myself and to share how I progressed to others who are coming to into the same profession - they might not be interested but they will notice - as did I when I was younger - what I've done and how that helped me get to where I have

The thing is, it still reads as the adults knowing better. And maybe you do. Hut in 20 years, they will be the CEOs running the show and making the decisions.

@EatTheGnome maybe you're right but in 20 years a lot of them will have kids and massive mortgages (if they are lucky and can afford that) that will influence their decision making. I can think of times when I was younger I was a lot more switched on about some things then those much older then me - however a lot of things I was way too immature on and can see that now. I've always liked being in mixed teams as you are always learning from one another. In all of this I know with hybrid I'm on to a good thing but jury still seems to out

The way I see it is that if I was to want to move jobs, I'd be happy going somewhere that was 100% WFH, or 100% in the office, or hybrid.

But the salary that would tempt me to move for the job would vary depending which of those it was. Specifically, I'd want the jobs which needed me to be in the office some or more of the time to pay enough so that after factoring in additional costs (commuting, coffees, lunches, etc) and the hours spent commuting, my effective hourly rate was at least as much as the fully WFH job.

I doubt I'm alone in this, so what'll happen in the long term is that employers who insist on having staff in the office will need to pay more than those who don't, or not being able to fill the jobs.