WFH vs Hybrid

[Wishing4SummerSun]

Just read a post that got me thinking about working from home vs hybrid working

Prior to covid I never WFH and throwing children into nursery then jumping on a train to work ... 5 days a week

Fast forward 4 years in the same job but now hybrid coming into office 2 days a week - for me if it is great. I can drop kids off at school am not picking them late from after school etc it just works well and I enjoy my 2 days in the office as I am out the house and talking to other adults (even if it is about boring work stuff)

So here is my AIBU there is a generational divide emerging where most the younger (generally early 30s and under no kids) complaining they have to come in at all - the more ahem ... mature team are more happy to come in with a few exceptions who are generally pretty lazy and would be off all the the time if they had to come in for all their hours. We have some people who very rarely come as they live further afield and were hired during COVID where our HR department seemed to think distance was no object BUT now the two days have been introduced we wouldn't be able to hire someone who lived 4 hours away and therefore couldn't travel in for 2 days a week (unless they have accommodation and could do the 2 days at once). I think we have a good deal - workplace is flexible in terms of hours, working patterns and to enable some semblance of a team the 2 days is very helpful but ... I am old compared to the younger staff and don't look to socialise much outside of work but early in my career I did and it benefited me greatly in terms of friendships and career development opportunities afforded to me by turning up to work

Notwithstanding reasonable adjustments AIBU that 2 days a week hybrid is not excessive or am i a dinosaur that should accept no one wants see other people during day and WFH 100% of the time
Worth mentioning salaries are decent and most people in our work, as nice as they are, are not specialists and not an 'in demand' industry

YANBU.

I started work in a “proper” job in 2013 and was young and childless. I benefitted from and enjoyed the social setting and picked up a lot of skills in the office. I didn’t have great work ethic when I first started and also picked that up along the way.

I’m now 30 with young children and a partner who is also home and I WFH full time. This absolutely suits my personal circumstances but I completely recognise the benefits and importance of in office time, and if my role mandated returning to the office for some of the time, I would accept that with no fanfare as long as some flexibility was offered.

I don't think it’s right or fair to complain about office based work for people who hold the same position they did pre covid, and have benefitted from a change in working pattern. Of course if you applied for a job on the premise that it was homeworking only, that’s a completely different story.

I agree with this, which is another reason why I challenge your assumption about it being the U30s not wanting to come in.
I am of an age where dc have moved out. During COVID, when dh was home too, we both had separate rooms we could work without disturbing each other or encroaching upon living space. Something that is much more likely for the older end of the workforce. People U30 are more likely to be in a house share, or even back with parents, where they are very unlikely to be able to set up a separate office.

You say something that really struck with me - you could sit down in the evening to catch up. This is something we struggle with in my workplace is people working over their hours to 'catch up' at night and the problem is when you are a manager or part of team this then becomes the culture/expectation and this has massive implications on stress and well-being

Or maybe you have an old fashioned view, or maybe a view restricted to your job, about working practices. I'll state for the 3rd time that this will depend on your job, but my team (and you have to be an experienced Manager to even apply for my role) do mostly work during the day, during the week, BUT, we all have stuff we do as part of the job that doesn't need to be done during office hours. Everyone on my team appreciates the flexibility, and autonomy to be able to take an hour or two out of the day occasionally to do something they'd like to do, knowing it is fine and they can put those 2 hours back when it suits them. Obviously it wouldn't work in a job where you are answering calls from customers or working collaboratively with other colleagues, but not everyone's job entails them doing those things all the time. It isn't about 'working over hours' (that is a completely separate issue). It is about being able to take a dentist / Dr / Hair / optician appt at 2pm, then finishing at 6 rather than 5, or starting at 8am rather than 9. I have a colleague who takes their dog and goes on a long walk in the middle of the day (in Winter) when it is light, rather than doing it at 6pm when it is dark. It isn't an issue, because she has autonomy over her own diary. It isn't a problem for our Team Manager, because we are all trusted professionals.

My view is that fully remote does not work, however, it is also my view that five days in the office does not work.

Hybrid is the perfect sweet spot and if i had my way all businesses would be doing it.

There is not a single business that didnt manage to successfully adapt during covid, so to go back to five days smacks of control

Would love hybrid. Teacher so that logistically can't happen.

I'm 40 with no DC and want to WFH not hybrid
Reasons mostly being fatigue and health related so not having to get up earlier etc
Don't live in a big house but I've set up a small work area

As someone who has to manage a long term health condition WFH is ideal.

I think it all depends on personal circumstances.

Interesting to see an OP talking about younger people not wanting/being able to come into workplaces! MN tends to be much keener on the idea that they're all champing at the bit for in person work, and it's the older generations who are fucking them over by selfishly wfh. The reality of course is more complex, as younger people aren't a monolith.

You make an important point about housing and commuting distance OP. It's a barrier. Depending on where your workplace is, it's potentially a bigger barrier for younger workers because they're the ones most exposed to the full horror of the housing market right now.

In terms of what's reasonable, a mistake a lot of people make is there's no one rule. There can be a tendency to portray hybrid as the best of both worlds, and it can be. But it can also be the worst of both too.

If you want 2 days in the office, that still means people will have to live close enough to commute regularly, so you've still narrowed your geographic area somewhat. It will be a barrier to employment with your organisation for some people. But it's probably not enough to get the attention of people who love working in person and benefit from being face to face with colleagues. Hybrid seems to be absolutely adored by the people it suits, but it puts some people off as well.

Wouldn't consider any job now that wasn't fully remote and most people I know are the same, but we are lucky enough to work in fields that support this. We are all in our 40s.

@HungryWombat I work in insurance and we are 2-3 days a week in the office.

I have several serious chronic illnesses so the balance helps me fit in medical appointments and manage fatigue but I love being in the office at least part of the week. I’m lucky that DH and I are both reasonable commutes into the City and have an office each to work in at home. I’m very aware that a lot of our grads are in house shares and find it better to be in the office than working from their bedroom.

Yes I've got some health issues which is also promoting me to want to move to a wfh/hybrid role but not sure how to make the leap. In also starting to need to take my mum to appointnents whjh I can't do I my completely non flexible in person job. I'd love to pop out for an hour and be able to make it up

I don't mind starting lower down in something but do want to be able to work up rather leap I to something g that has a ceiling.

So many on mn do this but I have no jdea how to change. I'm not management level but good degrees and good experience

A lot of back-office type jobs are, or at least can be, hybrid. HR, finance, IT etc.

My other team members are at least a 2 hour flight away so even if I go to the office I'm still talking to them on teams. Easier to cut out the travel time. I still head into the office once every week or two , but get way less done on those days than the WFH days.

I'm lucky in that my NHS job, as long as I go out to see the patients I have booked in (I work in the community), no one is particularly bothered if I'm at home writing reports or sitting on Teams meetings or in the office. As it is - we're not well set up in the office for multiple people to be on Teams calls (our "Teams" room is a converted cleaning cupboard).

I go in if I have a cluster of visits in an area near an office and I'll work out of the office then - and I try to make a point of working at least one day a week out of the office for part of it to allow catch up and office discussions about patients - but the Trust are selling off buildings left right and centre and we're running out of bases with enough car parking and storage to have our team offices anymore! I'm not going to go in and sit and hot desk next to people I don't know and don't have any professional interactions with as they deal with a completely different client group - because that derives no benefit for anyone and is just presenteeism for the sake of it.

Haven't set foot in my office since 16th March 2020 (other than to pack up my desk when they sold my office in 2022!)

Would happily never work in an office again.

We do have a second site and we can book desks at, if need be but I've never needed or wanted to.

We're a global company and I've never met my manager in person (she is in the US) and she's made it very clear as we are so dispersed there is no reason our team need to have mandatory days in the office. We'd all be going into different offices anyway (Sydney, London, NY) so its pointless.

Other teams have regular days (anything from once a week to once a month) they all book a desk and come in for f2f interaction but this is on an individual team basis. There is no mandate.

I get sent a new laptop every year, any IT issues have been resolved online. I speak to a wide variety of colleagues and have a good working relationship with most people I deal with.

Love it.

I'm with you OP, I enjoy two days a week in the office and meeting colleagues in 3d.
I am slightly disappointed because I'm about to start a new role which is advertised as hybrid, but the reality appears to be one day in the office per month and then a couple of days ad hoc as needed. That seems like the worst of all worlds as I like to have a routine, I think I will go in once a week anyway if there is space.

I work at home 4 days per week. The 1 day I go into the office is my least productive day due to noise and chatter. I couldn't ever go back to 5 days in an office, I'd never get anything done!

I speak to people on Teams every day and we have F2F social meetings every quarter. It's an incredibly close and talented team; the best I've ever worked in. Probably because we have the best people for the job not the people who live closest to the office.

I'm close to retirement age and as, like many others, I'll be working well into my 60s. I'm pleased that I won't have an exhausting commute thrown on top of having to work more years than I'd ever expected.

What job do you do justgot?

Id love to future proof by moving to wfh.

On the fence about this

We're hybrid model, but realistically it's only one day every other week.

Thing is, no one else is there. So what's the point? All meetings etc are online anyway.

The value of in office attendance is seeing other people... But they don't come in. So what's the point?

Younger generation are definitely on the 100% WFH side... Which I agree with tbh.

Really interesting to read all the responses - things that jump out the most is that it is situational and depends where you are in your life - early - mid - late career. Clear benefits for people whose health means WFH is a more viable option and enables earning in a way go into a sure would not allow. The team you are in seems to be a big decider and those fortunate enough to work for global or multi site companies may have no need to attend a sure regularly - if at all. Childcare one is a tricky one for me as tbh honest given the age of my DC I cannot do more then a couple of hours with them in the house before the fighting, coming in to ask questions etc start - I disagree with young children you can do a full day at home alone working - so they means still having to access childcare including paid for childcare which you would need anyway in another working scenario. As WFH evolves as a practice it will no doubt change more - for the good and bad im sure. @NewName24 I'll not ask you to repeat for a 4th time as I agree with you to a point but as someone who has worked in mental health there is a definite correlation about isolation, overwork and stress that is coming through from WFH situations but as you rightly say it's the composition and leadership of the team that makes all the difference - would a leadership change make a change for the worse? I'm glad I've got the skills to be more than a transactional face on a screen "you do your bit and I'll do mine" and when colleagues have been struggling I've been able to sit with them in person and offer support - others may disagree but that is my feeling on where having an in person relationship is crucial. Wondering if we should be expecting more as if we all spend a lot of time WFH should people not be demanding better pay of office overhead etc are decreasing - just a thought?? Thing they is going to stay with me though is how this frames the increasing individualistic society we live in - and I include myself in this - it is what works best for me at my age and stage, what makes me happy is more important than thinking about what a wider team needs to function well and so ensure it's survival and for those in development phase in careers learning skills that will take them to the next level. Could get a clap back here saying that the WFH etc ways of working does enable those things but every answer starts with what works for the poster first - maybe we need to be more honest about putting our needs first and if we can get a set up that works then that is the best we can hope for. Never going to be in agreement but WFH debate still needs to rumble on alongside other developing changes like 4 day working week

I'm wfh with visits to the office about once a month.

That suits me

Before the oandei could never imagine I'd like wfh. But now I know I will never work in a office again and it would take an awful lot to persuade me to go hybrid.

I do feel sorry for those earlier in their careers who want the office social life and buzz

But not my problem

Thing they is going to stay with me though is how this frames the increasing individualistic society we live in - and I include myself in this - it is what works best for me at my age and stage, what makes me happy is more important than thinking about what a wider team needs to function well and so ensure it's survival and for those in development phase in careers learning skills that will take them to the next level.

This isn't new.

People have always taken the jobs that best suited them, it's just that remote working wasn't part of the equation until the internet age. Fifty years ago nobody gave a fuck which typing pool. production line etc their presence would best assist in functioning. They chose based on wages, location, terms and conditions and what was best for them and their priorities.

I think I get almost all of the benefits of being together in an office in one day a week, some for a second day but diminishing returns. Even better if you have some control over when meetings/calls happen, so when in an office you are on as few calls as possible.