To refuse to go into a hot and sweaty office

[Floofydawg]

I've been WFH full time since Covid but we now have a directive of two days a week in the office. I can do my job fully remotely with no problems. I've been going into the office as directed but last week the air conditioning in the office wasn't working and we weren't allowed to open any windows to let some air in. The office was very very hot. I ended up going home because I felt ill and had a headache from the heat (I did work when I got home). Manager is expecting us in the office later this week even though the aircon is not fixed and we've been warned it could be warmer due to the heatwave. AIBU to refuse to go in?

I would also add that I am struggling with menopause and not being able to regulate my body temperature. Not saying I should get special treatment however I do struggle with it. I'd rather be home where I can open my windows and let some air in.

I have a similar issue at work. Over 23 degrees and it is shown that productivity dips massively, our office is consistently over that and when struggling with menopause it’s just really difficult to manage the heat. I never had this problem until I got to about 47. I have raised it with HR and Facilities, I’m not even allowed to bring in my own fan, they only offer those rubbish ones that plug into a laptop. I am in a profession and don’t want to go in dressed for the beach. You have my sympathy, it’s a nightmare.

It’s at least 27 degrees in my office every day. I have a fan. It makes very little difference. My work requires I am dressed “professionally” dresses with proper sleeves etc. It is unbearable. I have a chronic illness that worsens when I get hot and a manager who tells me that I must be strong when ever I raise an issue. You have my sympathies.

if you have the power to make improvements to your work conditions, then do it. Why hate on someone for seeking better conditions for themselves?? No one is handing out gold stars for self flagellation.

Not every menopausal aged woman will struggle with symptoms.

If you have a disability or medical need, your personal circumstances will absolutely be considered. They should be. The law is clear on reasonable adjustments. It is reasonable for someone who already WFH to work there an extra few days for the very few days we get in this country when it’s too hot for some peoples health.

Well done op on standing your ground. I don't wfh and I'm 28 weeks pregnant and I'm suffering. Fortunately we have lots of fans in the office and every window open but it's still so hot. It's nuts they refuse to open windows, surely that's dangerous. It was almost 30c today even with all windows open in my London office.

Just be glad you're not a teacher on your feet in a hot classroom with 30 hot kids. No air-con obviously and (since covid is over) no option for WFH.

We viewed many primary schools in December last year and most were unbelievably hot even then. I don't know how you manage it!

It shouldn't be too difficult to work out what the 'safety concern' is of allowing people to open windows of very tall buildings... 🤔

Ditto

This was my housing associations excuse for window restrictors
Then they moan we arent airing the place out properly
Gaslighting fuckers

I can’t believe that this is a woman’s forum in 2024 and we’re seriously suggesting that women should shush about their perimenopausal symptoms to avoiding ‘setting feminism back’.

But also OP - you seem too caught up in the stigma around menopause. You don’t want to wear a neck fan because you think it’s basically wearing a sign saying you’re ageing. Well yes. We all are. And the idea that women have to work so so so hard to hide it - up to an including fighting our bosses to accommodate menopause when, as a boss, I’ve been bombarded recently with information on how failure to make reasonable accommodations leaves you vulnerable to tribunal due to disability discrimination. There really is no excuse for you having to constantly remind your boss.

I’m glad you’re not going into the office. You are definitely not being unreasonable there. It’s a reasonable adjustment your employer can easily make. Unlike the construction worker/shop assistant bullshit Straw men arguments you’ve been getting.

But try and be a positive voice for menopause! It shouldn’t have to be hidden. If we are talking feminism, you can be damn sure the men wouldn’t shut up about it if they experienced the same.

You are right, lots of workers are struggling in this heat. But it doesn’t follow that because working conditions are bad for the majority then they should be bad for everybody. Equally it does not follow that because working conditions are bad for the majority that bad working conditions are reasonable.
I worked a summer job in a factory as a student, and witnessed older ladies really suffering in the heat but the owners refused to do anything to help, even after one lady actually did faint and they had to call an ambulance. I have also worked in an office where staff had to wear their coats and gloves all day as there was no heating. Some of us would take in hot water bottles!
There are health and safety regs to ensure workers’ wellbeing for all sorts of environmental issues such as excessive noise, smoking, availability of toilet and kitchen facilities etc. The reason staff aren’t allowed to open windows is usually to prevent accidents and to ensure that heating and cooling systems function efficiently. But in the UK there doesn’t seem to be any rules regarding extremes of temperature, unless anyone knows differently? With climate change causing more extreme weather this might be something that UK legislators ought to consider, but like anything that is in the interests of staff rather than business owners and shareholders, it won’t happen unless we push for it. So if it is unreasonable to ask for a working environment fit for human beings then I think we should all be unreasonable!

@CauliflowerBalti I agree with a lot of what you've said, but I feel like it's hard to be a positive voice for menopause when a lot of posters here are wading in and calling me a snowflake and telling me to just get on with it, because that's what they did in the dark ages. I also work with a lot of younger people who just don't get it.

The neck fan thing, to be honest I don't like things around my neck. I can't even wear a scarf in winter. But yeah, I do also feel like it would be like having a sign on my back in an office full of young people.

People who are lazy will be lazy in the office or at home. The problem is with managers. Like many things eg work mobiles, iPads etc WFH was originally considered a perk that was exclusively available to senior managers. There is nothing senior managers hate more than feeling that they are somehow losing a perk, and some will fight tooth and nail to stop the peasants getting their hands on anything that might actually make their jobs easier. The other is problem is incompetent managers who are simply unable to manage their teams using a task or productivity based model, but can only manage staff like invigilators at an exam looking over everyone’s shoulder. This ’command and control’ management style has always been counter productive because if you treat staff like children you’re not going to get the best out of them no matter how closely you supervise them. Managers who demand that staff are in the office when it’s unnecessary are often the ones who spend the most working hours out of the office so aren’t there themselves much of the time either!

I absolutely agree.

I’m a younger woman, and I can tell you, more and more of us are waking up to the realities of the struggles many women of our mothers generation went/ go through as a result of menopause. Do what makes your comfortable to be able to do your job at the best of you abilities.

Just a general point.. I’m so saddened to hear that some people are working for such inflexible companies with inflexible attitudes. Makes me very grateful for my company. As a society, we should encourage better working environments to accommodate different needs, in all workplaces.

Teachers are on their summer holidays at the moment and Tesco has air conditioning. I sometimes go to the supermarket during a heatwave just to cool off.

YANBU OP.

YANBU. They are. If there are windows that can be opened and they’re not allowing it, that’s stupid for one thing.
Have you asked whether they have bothered to get anti-glare film on the windows? The lack of that doesn’t help.

You have a lot of sympathy from me because 2 years ago I worked for an employer, which makes itself out to be at the forefront of doing the right thing by its staff and the reality is a lot of it’s for show. There was also a bizarre issue in that although the office was fully air conditioned, the one bit of it where I worked was having major issues. The temperature was getting up to 25 degrees by 10:30/11am. I’d bought a thermometer that also measured relative humidity and left it on my desk. The temperatures it was showing were insane for the time of day and the fact it was April/May.

My manager’s solution? She gave me one of those poxy USB fans. Everywhere else I’d worked had provided proper desk fans. In April I noticed I was suffering heat exhaustion side effects as were other people. We were a range of ages and body types. It ended up with me getting referred to OH believe it or not - not my choice but was happy to go along with it. One day at least 4 of us were ill as a result of how hot it was. People would come into our bit of the office and say, “why is it so warm in here?” My manager tried downplaying it and then eventually conceded there was a problem. Our relationship soured further though when my OH report came back and advised heat exhaustion and that I should take micro-breaks from the environment or to go and work in another part of the building where the AC worked.

I’d left by the time it got up to the late 30s/early 40s that summer. I knew I wouldn’t have coped in the summer so had looked for a new job.

Oh come on, YABU. Take in a fan for your desk.

Her employer should be providing these.

Well yes, can you imagine if ward staff said 'it's too hot, I'm not working' and if ops going on about covid, imagine the joys of working in this heat but in the full ppe gear!

That’s nice of your employer but there’s no “should” about it. There are lots of places that don’t even have air con in first place

As with the nurse saying similar on this thread, I am bemused. You are right about NHS buildings not having aircon. But you seem to think that makes you some kind of heroine? Has anyone considered that it probably isn’t good for the patients to suffer in the heat, even if the workforce would rather struggle on and play at being martyrs? 🤦‍♀️

Agree it's not necessarily an age thing.

Some of the worst comments on this thread have come from older women who think because they had no accommodations made, and apparently failed to notice the women who were driven out of the workforce by menopause symptoms, that's a perfect model for the ages.

You're very right about needing to encourage working environments that respond to people's needs as far as possible. We've lost millions of workers since covid and lots are either long term sick or carers. If we're to bring those people back in, that'll employers who are flexible about their needs, rather than those who think that because some jobs are done on building sites, in PPE etc that's somehow an answer to everything.

It’s actually not a good idea to open the windows when it’s very hot outside. Can’t let the cool breeze in if there isn’t one. Pull the blinds down and switch on a fan.