VAT on school fees not applied retroactively- ultra wealthy are safe

[Kitkat189]

VAT on school fees won’t be applied retroactively to school fees paid before 29 July meaning if you paid your child’s entire education upfront, you escape the 20% increase. I know people who did this in the hopes that this would happen and now it has. TELL ME HOW THIS IS FAIR??? The ultra wealthy won’t be impacted by this at all while other families are going to have to move their children. To those of you who support VAT on school fees, please know that it won’t apply to everyone and that some of the revenues from this will be lost. If you think it won’t matter because very few will have prepaid, you should disagree with this on principle.

regardless of where you stand on the topic of VAT on school fees, I think we can agree this is fundamentally unfair.

Honestly it’s quite racist and sexist to keeping bringing up Diane Abbott here. She’s not deciding on this now. So did Ruth Kelly, who nobody ever mentions, who was a former education secretary. She turned out to have a child with SEN in private school for a few years, her other kids went to state schools. Harriet Harman’s kid/s went to grammar.

Jeremy Corbyn went to private school himself for some of his education and then a grammar. Kier Starmer went to grammar which converted to fee paying during his time there and he got a bursary. What’s the point of this discussion? All kids and families are different.

People make hard choices for themselves when their own kids are at stake because they know the intimate circumstances of what their kids need. That need and the solutions available locally doesn’t always match the parents’ politics. But it does show there need to be lots of different options in education. This is shutting down options.

Starmer went to Leeds. He just did a postgraduate course at Oxford

There is time over summer to plan ahead. It’s a fair tax thar the privileged few can afford. We have had this debate a lot on here. There is nothing new to say. Of course the super wealthy are on a better position still. Hopefully there will be a tax on wealth in the pipeline.

Research shows that parental education and income has far more impact on how well a child will do at school than what school they went to. So for that reason I think children who had to leave their private schools due to VAT increase will mostly be fine.

If you look at the legislative details on hmrc website you will see that advanced payments won’t work.. only where fees have already been set so 24/25 yes but beyond unlikely.

People who don’t have children also do that. And what about the difference between those with 6 children and those with 1? It’s not how it works, and anyway everyone benefits from a well educated population. If you choose to pay for some extra privilege, that’s up to you (though I’m not entirely sure I agree it should be allowed…).

This constant accusation of people being jealous is actually what is pathetic. I have a child in a private school due to her SEN - I would have preferred for her to go to state school. The VAT will affect me and I have a whole lot less money than the person upthread, complaining about having to budget over £80k per year for school fees.

Bottom line, count your blessings. The most vulnerable people in society are the ones who need protecting the most right now after they have been punished by the previous government for 14 years.

The kids leaving private school will be the kids whose parents were poor themselves growing up and have to pay fees via salaries. The ones who grew up with a legacy of private school will have grandparents or trusts to fall back on

This is so true

So what?

Wow, imagine having to pay school fees from salaries(!)

Ok, so? Sounds like those families may actually benefit then, from not having to pay fees.

It includes most BAME people. Additionally Indian, African & Chinese kids who go to private are often the kids of nurses, teachers and carers on burseries who choose private INSTEAD of buying or renting a house. This policy will impact them the most as State schools in many areas are just gang or murder factors for kids who aren’t white.

The ultra wealthy are more than safe, they will benefit significantly from this policy.
Many will have been v.well aware of the VAT coming in & will have pre-paid before election day, just incase Labour went for them on Day 1 as stated by Angela Rayner & paying the invoice before the election, as long as it's not an escrow account in their name, that gets billed, it is pretty bullet proof in VAT law. As it is Rachel Reeves has said the date will be 29th July & and that people have been given ample time to plan - and the ultra wealthy have certainly done so
These ultra wealthy have been paying school fees in advance for a long time although the incentive of e.g. a 2% saving pa didn't seem that enticing but this is much more enticing for them.

The estimates for these schemes fees paid in advance are generally about 5% rise pa, so for example year 1 fees 25k, = year 2 fees 26,250 = year 3 = 27,562 = year 4 fees 28,940, = year 5 fees 30,387 = 138k to pay for 5 years upfront
If the school now charges VAT, & does not want to pass on full amount in order not to lose those pupils who don't pay upfront, it makes savings (cuts bursaries etc) & reclaims input VAT (huge windfall for some schools - we could be talking multiple millions) to only pass on 10%, i.e. 25k fee goes up to 27.5k fee incl VAT then the net amount that was previously estimated to rise by 5% will now start with a fall of 10% (then maybe rise by 5% thereafter depending on the windfall from input VAT reclaims) For those who paid upfront Year 1 22 500 = year 2 £23,625 = year 3 24,806 = year 4 26,046 = year 5 27,348 = total paid of £126.8k and a reimbursement of £138k - £ 126.8k = 12k ....kerching for the ultra wealthy but the real losers will be those who no longer receive bursaries, smaller independents who dont have the ultra wealthy attending, those parents just about affording & those significantly disrupted e.g. the 100k kids with SEN

The constant endeavours of some people on this thread and elsewhere to victimise a group of people who are not victims knows no bounds.

I hope this is caught up in legal challenge after legal challenge.
We will look for every way to pay as little tax as possible within the law.
I want every penny of our money to go to our children.

Let's hope that your dc's school is working hard to give them a social conscience then.

you crack on. Use every legal endeavour- as if you aren’t already.
Wealthy people are very good at being ‘tax efficient’ - it’s one of the many pros of having lots of money. The ability to use every loophole and actually having enough spare cash to think about saving it somewhere.
Most normal earners spend their money on, well, living - rent, mortgage, food, fuel, day to day stuff…that’s why they’re so good for the economy.

And when you need an ambulance? You can’t opt out of state structure and taxes and still expect to reap the benefits of civilised society.

@Corvidmango yes, let's scrap the police too whilst we're at it. Let anarchy reign. And when these rich people get their houses robbed I'm sure they will have thought of a way to handle it all by themselves(!)

Given how corrupt so many police seem to be, Can I opt out of paying for them? I also didn’t support the last war - Blair was a liar- can I have a refund for my cut of tax that paid towards that?
Oh, and our refuse people went on strike for weeks - I had to take our rubbish to the tip for that whole time, and I took the elderly neighbours, and the woman across the way who’d just had twins. Can I get my tax back from that, and maybe some of theirs?

I’m also paying onto a tax system for a pension that I may not see very much of, it’ll be 70 by then time I retire… can I please have a rebate of a few years since I’m not an older generation who got to retire in their early 60s?

Do you get it????

We are paying in though, aren't we? We are paying through the nose.
I believe in as little State intervention as possible.

I just can’t feel sorry for anyone caught up in this debacle. Just because your kid goes to private school it doesn’t automatically mean they’re going to do well. My cousin had a really expensive education and he’s a dog walker, following being unemployed for ages. He got about two GCSEs. He’s just thick 🤷‍♀️ If you’ve got the brains, you don’t need private school.

He hopefully enjoyed his school years. Who says his parents sent him to private school to 'unthick' him?

And by the way - my kids are bright and yet I want them to learn in small class sizes with minimal disruption and I am willing to pay for that privilege. And to contribute to those who need to use the state offering via income and other taxes and via VAT if the presiding government sees fit