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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Olympic gymnastics humiliates and infantilises grown adult women

902 replies

Thebellofstclements · 29/07/2024 04:01

The ridiculous leotards, the twee hairstyles. Having to do the ridiculous flicky "dance" moves (artistic expression, ha!) and grinning inanely (insanely) in between moves and when presenting...
Arguably the best athletes in the world but these grown adult women have to present themselves in a ridiculous, almost grotesquely infantile manner, looking fairy cheap and tacky.
The men do not.
My family argues that the gymnasts choose to do this.
We know that historically female gymnasts have been abused with no voice, so I'm not convinced this is all what they would necessarily choose given the option. AIBU?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
40
Back21970 · 29/07/2024 14:52

I love gymnastics but when watching last night I do have concerns about the leotards now - if you look back even 10 years ago there was not so much flesh on show.

The USA woman’s Team in particular - virtually full butt cheeks visible - how can that even be comfortable!

I think they should all follow the German womens example of leotard with the long legs personally.

There are actually more strict age rules for competing these days - I think you have to be at least 16 to compete whereas Nadia Comaneci was 14 - although granted at least her bum was covered back in 1976!

OneTC · 29/07/2024 14:57

Rosscameasdoody · 29/07/2024 14:44

No. This is one of a very few sports that has evolved to womens’ strengths. Why are you trying to denigrate that and portraying it as just a crap version of mens’ ?

Completely agree.

Climbing also works in a similar way, the problems and styles of climbing are modified slightly for body type and women's problems and routes are more often technical and more static and blokes routes and problems focus more on strength and dynamic moves. The blokes wouldn't necessarily do well on the women's routes. Also if you've got small hands then you get proportionally more contact with smaller holds

Katia93 · 29/07/2024 14:58

Wow, a 50/50 split on this one. I said you were being reasonable, because it’s insane for anyone to actually believe the gymnasts have any kind of power/voice against the almighty Gymnastics Federation. I’m in the US (originally born in Czechia) and like many young girls, did gymnastics for six years (between the ages of 5-11). Even then my parents had reservations about it because while I have no idea whether I would have truly gone on to compete at an elite level, that was supposedly what I was working toward. I was awful on vault, my best event was uneven bars, then beam, floor was okay. But the coaches pushed us REALLY hard. I competed with girls that were a couple years older than me… not because I was exceptionally better than my own age group, but because I was virtually fearless and would try anything on my own to improve my routine - so my coach didn’t even have to worry about talking me into elements I felt uncomfortable with or unprepared for; I was already ready to go.

I don’t want to say the exact name of my coach or which gym I trained, although some who have been involved in gymnastics - either themselves at one point, or with their child, can probably figure it out - it was in Gainesville, FL, and my coach had coached a gold medal Olympic champion in the Atlanta Olympics. There were girls I knew who went to the Karolyi Ranch - I was not one of them.

Things were arguably a lot worse then, but still. My parents finally agreed together to pull me out (kicking and screaming basically) after my coach wanted me to do a vault that could have resulted in serious injury had I not gotten comfortable with it during a competition (no foam pit to land in then, hence why what Simone Biles did in 2020 truly was heroic).

I hate how they’ve called it the “twisties” because even though it’s what it’s called among gymnasts, to people not overly familiar with the sport and especially not the average viewer - adding “ies” as a suffix is a diminutive, and automatically makes it seem like some silly problem.

The reality, as most have discovered by now, is far worse. Yes, your mental state can get so distorted that you can’t get a feel for where you are after pushing off the vault once in the air. It’s not just a matter of “oops, I fell and I feel so embarrassed!”, it was literally a matter of “if I do this, I could very well land on my neck/head, thus irreversibly paralyzing myself.”

Look up Elena Mukhina of the former USSR who broke her neck - I believe on the floor exercise, after performing an element, the now banned Thomas Salto, which she had begged her coaches she wasn’t ready for, saying she was afraid she’d paralyze herself! They didn’t listen, and because she was an orphan under control of the state, no one was there to protect her.

It happened in 1980 during a training session for the Olympic trials. Her first words after hearing about her injury were “Thank God I don’t have to go to the Olympics now.” Of course that wasn’t ultimately what she’d wanted and was completely devastated by what happened, and so severely depressed as someone who’d spent her entire life training, tumbling, flipping, running, she was now unable to even use a pen. Really, what she felt at that time was, “thank god I’m not going to be pushed anymore into doing all these things that I long ago lost the passion for doing” (she’d beaten Nadia Comaneci, gymnastics’ golden girl).

I may have spelled the last name wrong but if you Google the other details (USSR, gymnast, paralyzed, Thomas Salto, Olympics) you’ll find it. The reason I’m bringing this entire incident up is because it wasn’t just Soviet style Olympics. That was how gymnastics had been in the 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s - throughout the world, and very much so in the US once we brought the Karolyis over to pick, train, and coach our Olympic team.

*If parents can’t stick around to watch their girls train, and you can’t even vocalise any concerns, let alone objections, to potentially life-threatening routines, does anyone really believe as a teenage or young adult gymnast, that you have any control over the other elements? No, those are required elements. Your leos have to meet certain requirements, your hair must always be up, of course, your makeup can be heavy but it must appear natural. Your nails can only be painted clear or in a French manicure, if you want to change anything minor you must first get the approval of your coach and then the officials of the hosting body.

The funny thing is, they always want the gymnasts to look carefree and happy during competitions, in a sport that for so long demanded the opposite in training - where joking around and having fun weren’t allowed, and training camp was run like a boot camp. A lot of that has begun to change thanks to gymnasts speaking up against Larry Nasser, as well as Simone Biles prioritizing mental health and safety over forcing yourself to do something you’re not comfortable with (then coming back after two years off even better!).

I don’t necessarily agree with the leos being too sexualized - they can’t compete in comfy pants or even shorts, really - they need all the free movement they can get with the lesser clothing. Notice how with women they have their arms and chest completely covered with their legs bare, but it’s the opposite with men - they wear very little on top, and can’t exactly wear leos because of - well, certain parts?

There probably is a more comfortable alternative out there, yet, for a sport that’s just beginning to see the gymnasts as people (young girls at that) rather than machines, there’s a long way to go from allowing them to say they’re not comfortable performing certain routines which may result in instant paralysis, to saying they’re not comfortable with the “artistic” aspect and how they’re supposed to look/act during the competition.

Isittimeformynapyet · 29/07/2024 14:59

AGoingConcern · 29/07/2024 05:52

Gymnastics leotards cover more than most of the swimsuits in diving and more than quite a few of the athletics athletes wear. Unitards are also an option for gymnasts that prefer them - two of the three German gymnasts wore them today in fact. There is no competitive reason for gymnasts not to wear plain black leotards. But, believe it or not, quite a few of the women who seek out a sport where dance and artistry are central actually like girly things. When GK asked the team USA gymnasts what they wanted in their leotards the answer was as much sparkle as possible. Team Brazil’s leotards are designed by one of their gymnasts.

It’s ok for women to like makeup, sparkly outfits and dancing and to choose a sport that lets them feel girly, graceful AND powerful all at the same time. Being feminine isn’t inane or infantile.

If you want to GR rally criticism for a sport the athletes don’t choose themselves, go check out dressage.

Who's GK and what is GR please?

Katia93 · 29/07/2024 15:01

I put a star next to what I deemed the more important part of my post, as I know a wrote a LOT.

HoppingPavlova · 29/07/2024 15:10

Arguably the best athletes in the world but these grown adult women have to present themselves in a ridiculous, almost grotesquely infantile manner, looking fairy cheap and tacky

That’s very subjective. Is that how they see it? Generally, if that’s how athlete’s see it they do barrack for change such as the revolt by women tennis players on the white bottoms, or volleyball players for their short shorts etc. Lots of women athletes in sport group together and speak out if they are not happy but how do you know gymnasts are not happy and consider their appearance to be cheap and tacky?

Katia93 · 29/07/2024 15:34

Isittimeformynapyet · 29/07/2024 14:59

Who's GK and what is GR please?

Gymnastics Kinetics, the designers behind the competition leotards.

Thebellofstclements · 29/07/2024 15:44

1BodyProblem · 29/07/2024 11:49

If you are deaf it's more likely you will be a Taylor Swift fan, to be fair.

😂

OP posts:
Katia93 · 29/07/2024 15:57

HoppingPavlova · 29/07/2024 15:10

Arguably the best athletes in the world but these grown adult women have to present themselves in a ridiculous, almost grotesquely infantile manner, looking fairy cheap and tacky

That’s very subjective. Is that how they see it? Generally, if that’s how athlete’s see it they do barrack for change such as the revolt by women tennis players on the white bottoms, or volleyball players for their short shorts etc. Lots of women athletes in sport group together and speak out if they are not happy but how do you know gymnasts are not happy and consider their appearance to be cheap and tacky?

Agree; while the women don’t get to “pick” what they wear and there are strict rules in place regarding makeup and hair, it’s more to MINIMISE the amount of makeup they’re wearing and to keep the concentration where it belongs: on the athletes themselves, not on heavy makeup, face paint, crazy hairstyles, etc., that will detract from their performance and have people paying more attention to their looks instead.

Personally I’ve never really heard any complaints from gymnasts themselves about leotards. And as others have said, if enough of the elite level athletes had an issue with them, then went to GK (the company responsible for their leotards) with those complaints, they’d undoubtedly not only be taken into consideration, but implemented, so long as the requests were reasonable and for the sake of better executing their skills.

Again, too, as others have said, to those complaining about how they’re dressed or makeup: they’re really not judged at all by their appearance. There may be a strict enforcement of the rules - such as “no, you absolutely cannot wear a glittering headband during your routine” or “yes, absolutely stick with minimal makeup, if you wear purple eyeshadow you’re just going to be asked to wipe it off” - but uniformity is key in team competitions.

In my first post I was really highlighting what’s important in gymnastics, and I know gymnasts are much more considered about putting too much pressure on themselves and their bodies far more than they’re concerned about their leos. No one has ever flashed anything. It’s not that serious.

Chickychoccyegg · 29/07/2024 16:04

My dds have been/are involved in competative gymnastics and cheer.
My dds and their team mates, love the costumes, the pouting, posing and grinning, is all a part of the performance and they enjoy it all, basically the people involved enjoy it, so no need for anyone else to worry about it.

NerrSnerr · 29/07/2024 16:10

Chickychoccyegg · 29/07/2024 16:04

My dds have been/are involved in competative gymnastics and cheer.
My dds and their team mates, love the costumes, the pouting, posing and grinning, is all a part of the performance and they enjoy it all, basically the people involved enjoy it, so no need for anyone else to worry about it.

Shockingly your daughter's experience may not be everyone's. Another poster on the thread said their teenage daughter quit gymnastics because they didn't want to wear the leotards as a teen.

saraclara · 29/07/2024 16:10

Newsflash: women are not just slightly crap men. Men's sport is not the ideal that everyone should aspire to. "Be more like men" is not a feminist position.

It's depressing really, that posters who clearly imagine themselves to be making a feminist argument still clearly see male as default.

Excellent points made by both pps.

Nanaof1 · 29/07/2024 16:31

goodkidsmaadhouse · 29/07/2024 07:08

There are several disciplines in gymnastics. To be an amazing female artistic gymnast then yes you need to be good at dance as well as the actual gymnastic skills.
It is all part of the same sport now. Even from a young age elite female gymnasts receive specialist dance training.

If they don’t enjoy that they tend to switch to a discipline that doesn’t involve it eg tumbling/trampoline. Meanwhile if the boys do want to dance and wear fancy outfits they tend to find themselves in rhythmic or display.

I find the artistry makes the women’s gymnastics way more enjoyable to watch than the men’s. Tell me this gymnast isn’t having fun…
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4ic7RNS4Dfo

And as for the hairstyles - I braid and clip my hair when I compete in running events to keep it out my face. Is that not allowed either?

Oh WOW! I loved her routine AND I loved the music!.

I got to see a couple of the women's floor routine by the team from Brazil. They were so good and I loved their music choices.

I also loved the routine and music from the routine you posted @goodkidsmaadhouse . She had fun and her talent was enjoyable to watch.

TheKeatingFive · 29/07/2024 16:34

NCAA gymnastics has such a lovely vibe. They all seem to be having a ball.

Sharptonguedwoman · 29/07/2024 16:49

Oftenaddled · 29/07/2024 08:56

Men's and women's artistic gymnastics are different sports. You don't see men on balance beam either. That's okay.

A skill is different to artistic interpretation.

prh47bridge · 29/07/2024 16:56

Sharptonguedwoman · 29/07/2024 16:49

A skill is different to artistic interpretation.

Artistic interpretation is a skill, but it is not one that gets you marks in women's gymnastics. What matters is the difficulty of the routine and how well it is executed. Those are the only things that get you marks. And you might want to read the posts on this thread from actual gymnasts explaining why they "wiggle about between moves" and wear costumes that you regard as silly.

TheKeatingFive · 29/07/2024 16:58

It would be interesting if those being critical shared their understanding of how the code of points works.

Sharptonguedwoman · 29/07/2024 17:00

Chickychoccyegg · 29/07/2024 16:04

My dds have been/are involved in competative gymnastics and cheer.
My dds and their team mates, love the costumes, the pouting, posing and grinning, is all a part of the performance and they enjoy it all, basically the people involved enjoy it, so no need for anyone else to worry about it.

I struggle with all those aspects. pouting, posing and grinning. Absolutely not necessary to showing you can do a particular move imo. It doesn't matter cos I'm not a gymnast and no-one will care what I think.

TheKeatingFive · 29/07/2024 17:05

Sharptonguedwoman · 29/07/2024 17:00

I struggle with all those aspects. pouting, posing and grinning. Absolutely not necessary to showing you can do a particular move imo. It doesn't matter cos I'm not a gymnast and no-one will care what I think.

Pouting and grinning are neither here nor there. They have no impact on scores.

By 'posing' I expect you mean presentation of elements. This is required by men also, but you don't 'get' points for this. There are artistry deductions that can be taken, at an overall level. It's mostly about showing optimal extension and finishing of/control elements. But artistry deductions apply to a much broader base than this.

BernardBlacksBreakfastWine · 29/07/2024 17:20

I can’t help feeling that those on here most vociferously defending the extreme ‘femininity’ of gymnastics are precisely those mums who are trussing their little girls up in stage make-up and whatnot for dance competitions. If you are a dance mum or a gymnastics mum, then you’re not going to see it in the same way as an outsider. I found @Katia93 ’s post very revealing though.

Violay · 29/07/2024 17:21

I'm left wondering in what ways it IS acceptable to express femininity these days. It seems that anything traditional, stereotypical or that enhances our physical differences is a huge faux pas and simply pandering to the 'male gaze' and most of us are responding mindlessly to gender conditioning. Maybe we should all go around wearing bin bags or just dress like men and be done with it. One thing you soon learn being female is that EVERYTHING you do will be analysed and judged to the nth degree; often by other women claiming to have our best interests at heart. What a way to detract from their spectacular achievements, moving the focus to what they look like; THAT is what hasn't changed since the 70's.

TheKeatingFive · 29/07/2024 17:23

BernardBlacksBreakfastWine · 29/07/2024 17:20

I can’t help feeling that those on here most vociferously defending the extreme ‘femininity’ of gymnastics are precisely those mums who are trussing their little girls up in stage make-up and whatnot for dance competitions. If you are a dance mum or a gymnastics mum, then you’re not going to see it in the same way as an outsider. I found @Katia93 ’s post very revealing though.

What do they say again? That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without ceremony. Something like that ...

TheKeatingFive · 29/07/2024 17:25

It is immensely telling (to me at least) how much people have internalised sport as a male sphere where women could only hope to be lesser versions of men. What a sad take on the world.

HappyHolidays75 · 29/07/2024 17:26

@BernardBlacksBreakfastWine your description couldn't be further from the truth for me and my girls.
No make up, no frills.
Hoodies, cargos.
Dedicated athletes.
Plaits for comps is as dressy as it gets. But is actually necessary so long hair is safely out of the way!

nietzscheanvibe · 29/07/2024 17:31

Violay · 29/07/2024 17:21

I'm left wondering in what ways it IS acceptable to express femininity these days. It seems that anything traditional, stereotypical or that enhances our physical differences is a huge faux pas and simply pandering to the 'male gaze' and most of us are responding mindlessly to gender conditioning. Maybe we should all go around wearing bin bags or just dress like men and be done with it. One thing you soon learn being female is that EVERYTHING you do will be analysed and judged to the nth degree; often by other women claiming to have our best interests at heart. What a way to detract from their spectacular achievements, moving the focus to what they look like; THAT is what hasn't changed since the 70's.

Nothing wrong with expressing femininity (in my opinion); but should it be required of you in a gymnastics competition (or swimming, or beach volleyball, etc.)?

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