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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Olympic gymnastics humiliates and infantilises grown adult women

902 replies

Thebellofstclements · 29/07/2024 04:01

The ridiculous leotards, the twee hairstyles. Having to do the ridiculous flicky "dance" moves (artistic expression, ha!) and grinning inanely (insanely) in between moves and when presenting...
Arguably the best athletes in the world but these grown adult women have to present themselves in a ridiculous, almost grotesquely infantile manner, looking fairy cheap and tacky.
The men do not.
My family argues that the gymnasts choose to do this.
We know that historically female gymnasts have been abused with no voice, so I'm not convinced this is all what they would necessarily choose given the option. AIBU?

OP posts:
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40
Frowningprovidence · 29/07/2024 12:20

I am also not convinced that the male gaze is moved by sparkles and neat hair buns.

They may like the covered up arms and covered breasts with high cut briefs and legs on show. But they probably also like the tight fitting unitard of the Germans

Apolloneuro · 29/07/2024 12:21

I disagree. I think they look immensely powerful and strong.

The sports wear is functional and I have no problem with sparkles.

Oftenaddled · 29/07/2024 12:21

BernardBlacksBreakfastWine · 29/07/2024 12:17

We’re all victims of the male gaze. When a sport has traditionally been practised by very young girls whose appearance is scrutinised by the general public, it’s likely to be magnified.

Sure. We are all victims of the male gaze. Allowing women to choose and revel in the clothing they prefer is therefore either surrender to the male gaze or the best way to get on with things and empower them.

Women calling other women tacky and silly for preferring sparkles does not liberate anyone from the male gaze. The only question we should be asking is, are they happy and comfortable with what they are wearing.

We have evidence that the US and Brazilian teams in particular are very happy and excited about their choice of look and clothing.

SummaLuvin · 29/07/2024 12:25

Oftenaddled · 29/07/2024 12:15

Leggings would not necessarily be more comfortable. If a woman is comfortable in a leotard, it's okay if it occasionally exposes her buttocks. Let them choose.

the training videos released on instagram I have seen show female gymnasts seem to favour the following 2 options far and above anything else - sleeveless leotard or micro sport shorts + sports bra.

whereisthelifethatirecognize · 29/07/2024 12:27

prh47bridge · 29/07/2024 11:45

Yet again confusing what competitors choose to wear with the rules. See this photo of Canada vs US on Saturday. No bikini tops or bottoms in sight.

Edited

This is a very recent change to the rules after YEARS of requiring the bikinis. Protests were held before the last Olympic games over it.

Wafflefudge · 29/07/2024 12:29

I've seen a couple of people talk about climbing as a sport where there are no rules about outfits and hair etc which is completely true. But if you look at the comp climbers you will see some wearing make up, some wearing crop tops and tiny shorts, some wearing jewellery. A lot wear bows and have hair in braids. Many wear nail varnish. Some people enjoy dressing up, I imagine lots of the gymnasts like the sparkle.
Bare skin can be easier to manouvere as well.
I've been watching the gymnasts and so far only seen one smiling during her floor routine.
People can dislike the dance element of the sport if that's how they feel but the offensive language used about it is belittling not the fact that it exists. Many, many people find it beautiful.

prh47bridge · 29/07/2024 12:29

whereisthelifethatirecognize · 29/07/2024 12:27

This is a very recent change to the rules after YEARS of requiring the bikinis. Protests were held before the last Olympic games over it.

I know. But the posters who think women are still required to wear bikinis is wrong.

Pluvia · 29/07/2024 12:29

CelesteCunningham · 29/07/2024 12:07

More revealing sporting attire on my Twitter feed this morning. Nothing left to the imagination, hair removed. Disgraceful.

Or is this ok because it's a man? The female gymnasts are much more modestly attired than this IMO.

Edited

Do you not understand that he's removed his hair in order to move faster through the water? Female gymnasts have to remove pubic hair not for practical reasons but in order to conform to a set of beauty and presentations standards which require them to wear potential revealing clothing while also pretending that women don't have body hair. There's a massive difference.

Demonhunter · 29/07/2024 12:33

Historically, leotards are for safety as loose clothing could be dangerous. Also freedom of movement, not causing them to overheat as it's a strenuous sport and performance enhancement. Could be a project for someone to design something that offers the same but that they deem "acceptable" and see what the athletes think?

Pluvia · 29/07/2024 12:34

SummaLuvin · 29/07/2024 12:25

the training videos released on instagram I have seen show female gymnasts seem to favour the following 2 options far and above anything else - sleeveless leotard or micro sport shorts + sports bra.

Could that possibly be because they're on Instagram and trying to attract attention and followers and they are nervous that appearing in leggings and a sensible vest top will not appeal to women who don't want to think about sexism in sport?

NerrSnerr · 29/07/2024 12:34

Wafflefudge · 29/07/2024 12:29

I've seen a couple of people talk about climbing as a sport where there are no rules about outfits and hair etc which is completely true. But if you look at the comp climbers you will see some wearing make up, some wearing crop tops and tiny shorts, some wearing jewellery. A lot wear bows and have hair in braids. Many wear nail varnish. Some people enjoy dressing up, I imagine lots of the gymnasts like the sparkle.
Bare skin can be easier to manouvere as well.
I've been watching the gymnasts and so far only seen one smiling during her floor routine.
People can dislike the dance element of the sport if that's how they feel but the offensive language used about it is belittling not the fact that it exists. Many, many people find it beautiful.

But it's a choice. Erin McBeast (GB climber) will compete in a vest and long shorts, trains usually in t shirt and shorts or long trousers.

Lots wear cropped tops to train/ compete, most wear a t shirt or vest. You rarely see very small shorts.

There is such a variation. Some wear cropped tops and leggings and others wear baggy cotton trousers and baggy t shirts at almost all levels.

There is no pressure. It's a very chilled sport. You don't even need to wear your team kit to compete for them. Just no hoodies (or tuck your hood in)

Oftenaddled · 29/07/2024 12:36

Pluvia · 29/07/2024 12:34

Could that possibly be because they're on Instagram and trying to attract attention and followers and they are nervous that appearing in leggings and a sensible vest top will not appeal to women who don't want to think about sexism in sport?

Unlikely - sure they would wear their sparkles, by that logic?

Oftenaddled · 29/07/2024 12:38

Pluvia · 29/07/2024 12:34

Could that possibly be because they're on Instagram and trying to attract attention and followers and they are nervous that appearing in leggings and a sensible vest top will not appeal to women who don't want to think about sexism in sport?

They aren't glamour kits they're wearing. Women can think about sexism in sport without denigrating other women's clothing choices

toastofthetown · 29/07/2024 12:38

Pluvia · 29/07/2024 12:34

Could that possibly be because they're on Instagram and trying to attract attention and followers and they are nervous that appearing in leggings and a sensible vest top will not appeal to women who don't want to think about sexism in sport?

Gymnastics is a sport with significant injury risk. If you were trying a new and risky skill, would you want to wear clothes that were uncomfortable? These are adult women, and in this context in their own time and completely in control of their own sartorial choices. The clothing which is right for them is the ‘sensible’ choice, not the options which you’re imposing.

Wafflefudge · 29/07/2024 12:39

@NerrSnerr that was my point though, that plenty choose to wear feminine elements and that it isn't infantalising or tacky etc. Gymnasts can choose long length leotards etc now. Also as climbing doesn't have an element of scoring your performance as such you don't need to be able to see the shape or alignment of the body so baggy outfits can be worn whereas this wouldn't be possible for gymnastics.

NerrSnerr · 29/07/2024 12:40

@Wafflefudge the gymnasts can only choose to wear longer shorts in the Olympics if the Olympic committee provide them and AFAIK only Germany offer this.

SummaLuvin · 29/07/2024 12:41

Pluvia · 29/07/2024 12:34

Could that possibly be because they're on Instagram and trying to attract attention and followers and they are nervous that appearing in leggings and a sensible vest top will not appeal to women who don't want to think about sexism in sport?

no, I think they are more concerned with being the best athlete they can be and find training in tight fitting clothes that keep them cool works for them. The training videos are not typically highly produced and aren't particularly appealing to someone not interested in the sport. They tend to be clips they have of themselves, where they apparently set up a camera focused on whatever piece of apparatus in all likelihood so they can go back and watch themselves in order to perfecta skill or see what they routine looks like. They might post a clip because - wow that's so cool I finally got that bars combination.

FrenchMustard · 29/07/2024 12:44

They are incredible, accomplished female athletes and their clothing is practical and safe. Ever considered that maybe they want to achieve a certain look because it gives them confidence and all contributes to a positive mindset in the competition?

I noticed in the eventing they have sparkles on their riding hats and on the horses ear bonnets. I hope you don’t find sparkles on horses offensive as well 🙄

owladventure · 29/07/2024 12:46

Wafflefudge · 29/07/2024 12:39

@NerrSnerr that was my point though, that plenty choose to wear feminine elements and that it isn't infantalising or tacky etc. Gymnasts can choose long length leotards etc now. Also as climbing doesn't have an element of scoring your performance as such you don't need to be able to see the shape or alignment of the body so baggy outfits can be worn whereas this wouldn't be possible for gymnastics.

The male gymnasts wear baggy joggers and shorts.

CelesteCunningham · 29/07/2024 12:47

Pluvia · 29/07/2024 12:34

Could that possibly be because they're on Instagram and trying to attract attention and followers and they are nervous that appearing in leggings and a sensible vest top will not appeal to women who don't want to think about sexism in sport?

I don't think a vest top would be practical for gymnastics? The crotch part of a leotard is practical and keeps it in place. A vest top would ride up with twisting and tumbling I imagine.

Shorts can be added in training if the gymnast is more comfortable with that, but I don't think vest tops would be popular. Maybe sports bras as they're pretty secure.

saraclara · 29/07/2024 12:49

owladventure · 29/07/2024 12:46

The male gymnasts wear baggy joggers and shorts.

No they don't. Baggy clothing would be a huge disadvantage on various pieces of equipment. Particularly the pommel horse.

They wear streamlined trousers and shorts.

RogerApGwilliam · 29/07/2024 12:50

owladventure · 29/07/2024 12:46

The male gymnasts wear baggy joggers and shorts.

When do male gymnasts wear baggy joggers? The tracksuits, sure, but that's also true of the women. If you mean the long trousers they compete in for the 4 apparatus they don't have in common with women, they're not baggy joggers. They couldn't be, as the judges need to be able to clearly see the shape of the leg.

TwigletsAndRadishes · 29/07/2024 12:50

Pluvia · 29/07/2024 11:13

It's not a matter of opinion that the dance and artistry elements are a part of the sport of women's artistic gymnastics. If you don't like that, tumbling and trampolining also exist, and I expect the trampolining will be on the telly next week. But it's as much a part of the sport as, say bars. It just is.

In what other sphere of life would you say 'it just is' and leave it there? Female genital mutilation: it's always existed, it just is, don't do anything about it. Sexism: it just is. Discrimination against pregnant workers and women with small children: it just is.

It doesn't have to be this way. When someone was caught on camera punching a horse in the Modern Pentathlon at the 2020 Olympics the ruling body decided that from 2028 the show-jumping element of the sport would be dropped. It looks very much as if dressage will be dropped from competition in the future following revelations about Charlotte Dujardin. It's not 'It just is'. Otherwise there would have been no furore over the sexual and physical abuse that was endemic in gymnastics for years.

I wonder how many amazing female gymnasts and other athletes drop out of competitive sport in adolescence because they're unhappy with the ridiculous uniforms they're require to wear, all too many of which focus attention on the crotch? This thread has reminded me that when the first video recorders became available a woman who worked with my mum told colleagues that she'd wiped all the gymnastic and sports tapes her husband had recorded because she'd caught him masturbating while watching one female runner with jiggly breasts in slow motion.

A runner with jiggly breasts Now that is unusual. Most high performance runners have very little to jiggle and these days they flatten them further with skin tight sports bralets. But let's say a female athlete jiggled or wanted to go braless and some men found that arousing? Men do find jiggling breasts arousing. It's sort of in the job description for most of them. At least he was masterbating in private and not feeling entitled to grope her, or hiss at her in the street for being a harlot.

What should we do? Insist that women can only participate in sports if they are able to do them in baggy 'modest' clothing, like in Saudi, Iran or Afghanistan? Is it more misogynist to want women in tight leotards and swimming costumes, crop tops and teeny tiny shorts, or to insist that they cover up in baggy stuff so no-one is triggered into needing to rape them, or wanting to masterbate at the sight of them?

I imagine what most female athletes want is the choice to make their own decision based on what works best for them, with their sporting performance as the first consideration beyond everything else. If certain confines or requirements of a specific sport make that difficult then it's probably not the right sport for them, at least not at international competition level.

What exactly is it that we want for women? Can we decide once and for all please? On the one hand we are told that we should never judge any woman or girl for dressing 'inappropriately' (usually taken to mean looking too 'sexy' or too scantily clothed) in social or professional settings, and that men in particular should never imply anything at all by it, or see it as an invitation for male attention.

On the other hand, here we are arguing that these women gymnasts are indecently clad and the assumption is that they have no say in what they wear to compete, the level of body coverage and how 'pretty' or not, they should look.

So women shouldn't have to cover up due to pressure from misogynists when on the street or in the office, but they should cover up while performing in sport? And they should also examine why they feel a need to wear very revealing performance wear, because misogyny. Confused

What do those athletes want? What do they feel they need in order to perform best and feel most comfortable, never mind anyone else who thinks they know best? I'm sure gymnasts don't all think like one homogenous mass, some will like the skimp and the sparkles, others won't. But certain things are a requirement for good reason. Watching the women's skateboarding yesterday, they ranged from wearing lycra crop tops to hugely baggy t-shirts that came to their bums. Obviously totally their choice, but neither would affect their ability to skateboard to the best of their ability, or for judges to score them accurately. It's not the same in gymnastics.

owladventure · 29/07/2024 12:51

Demonhunter · 29/07/2024 12:33

Historically, leotards are for safety as loose clothing could be dangerous. Also freedom of movement, not causing them to overheat as it's a strenuous sport and performance enhancement. Could be a project for someone to design something that offers the same but that they deem "acceptable" and see what the athletes think?

If it's for safety, why aren't the male gymnasts competing in skimpy leotards too then? They're wearing full length baggy joggers and shorts.

Is there something special about men that means it's safe for them to wear shorts and joggers but for women it's dangerous? Or that stops them overheating?

RogerApGwilliam · 29/07/2024 12:53

owladventure · 29/07/2024 12:51

If it's for safety, why aren't the male gymnasts competing in skimpy leotards too then? They're wearing full length baggy joggers and shorts.

Is there something special about men that means it's safe for them to wear shorts and joggers but for women it's dangerous? Or that stops them overheating?

They're not wearing baggy joggers though. Look at a few photos!