Olympic gymnastics humiliates and infantilises grown adult women

[Thebellofstclements]

The ridiculous leotards, the twee hairstyles. Having to do the ridiculous flicky "dance" moves (artistic expression, ha!) and grinning inanely (insanely) in between moves and when presenting...
Arguably the best athletes in the world but these grown adult women have to present themselves in a ridiculous, almost grotesquely infantile manner, looking fairy cheap and tacky.
The men do not.
My family argues that the gymnasts choose to do this.
We know that historically female gymnasts have been abused with no voice, so I'm not convinced this is all what they would necessarily choose given the option. AIBU?

Thanks for clarifying.

I'd like to specifically address the point about why the women's version of the sport must be worse than the men's. A few people have done this in the thread now, set up the male as the standard when it comes to the differing artistry requirements, and the closest we've got to an explanation was something something FGM. You mention a view that the women's version of things is usually detrimental, so could you explain why that's the case here, in one of the sadly few occupations where the women are higher profile and the best make more money than the men? (As an example, Simone Biles chose to have only women on her tour after the last Olympics, and predictably enough there were male gymnasts who complained about that).

I get the points about wider sexism impacting everything, which is true. But not sure why, in artistic gymnastics specifically, the male version of the sport has to be seen as superior. It feels very male centric. Men as the standard doesn't tend to go very well for us either.

They often aren't adult women though, and the ones who are have been groomed from childhood to think it's normal.

Did you not see how many of them didn't realise they'd been sexually assaulted until it all came out, because they were told it was a normal part of a medical/physio.

to conflate Simone Biles choosing to wear a bow in her hair and a rhinestone leotard with the abuse she suffered at the hands of the worst sex offender in American history is disgusting.

They're actually wearing swim-suits that come down to just above the knee.
Olympics - Day 2: BBC One - Evening - BBC iPlayer 01:51:05.

I watched some synchronised swimmers at the London Olympics trial events back in the day. I have to say I came away amazed at their skill and stamina, they do more or less what the gymnasts do in the floor section, but they do it while swimming, staying underwater, holding their breath and watching out for and keeping in time with their team members. As far as I am concerned they can wear what they want and put what they want on their faces, they are incredible athletes and deserve recognition as such.

Many other sports rely on gymnast training eg diving, trampolining, synchronised swimming, and many athletes in those sports started off as gymnasts. All are amazing to watch. Strong, flexible, brave they should be lauded not sneered at @Thebellofstclements .

@SummaLuvin but I asked if they have the choice which I don't think they do.

The GB kitting out is a well publicised thing so they should be given the option of a leotard, one with cycling short or one with long legs. If they all choose the leotard then happy days they're all happy but they had the choice.

It's so hard to speak up as I have said previously. Even Jessica Ennis Hill, Olympic champion struggled when she was still competing but now says she wished she had kits that offered more coverage.

I'm 100% not saying that all gymnasts should be in unitards but why not offer the choice and not wait for someone having to speak up first?

I can't believe that in the space of a few years since the Downie's, Amy Tinkler, Jennifer Pinches etc spoke out that the culture of British gymnastics has changed so much that the athletes are now fully autonomous in their decisions when only very recently everything was controlled for them.

Even grass-routes I know a child on a tumbling squad, his family have to keep it a secret that he is on a squad for another sport as it's 'not allowed'. Gymnastics holds so much power it's insane.

My daughter wasn’t allowed to not wear the leotard. So even if in the olympics they are allowed longer outfits that’s not the case in the training gyms I’ve been into.

I love that the Germans wear the long leggings. Of course it isn’t a few choice. It technically is but if every other athlete is wearing legless you will stand out not doing so and if the dance moves are required then of course you won’t get picked for the team if you don’t do it. I find the world of ballroom worse for the conformity.

I think the fact that a number of people have referred to artistic gymnastics may hold the key. Do the men do artistic gymnastics or are their gymnastics just about demonstrating strength and control? Why do the women have to be 'artistic', whatever that means? How is this artistry judged?

For the 'it just is' brigade, the first time I saw a woman run a marathon was at the 1984 Olympics. The first time any woman was officially allowed to participate in a marathon was 1967. It was believed that women weren't capable of running that far and that it wasn't good for them. Those who are denying the patriarchal nature of sports' ruling bodies are doing no one any favours.

But why pretend that the trend in women’s sportswear - whether it’s gymnastics, volleyball, whatever - hasn’t been influenced by the male gaze? Just why?

The women’s version of gymnastics has been traditionally more about aesthetics than the men’s. The costumes reflect that.

Same can be said about society in general.

I just don’t get women who pretend it’s otherwise.

It’s great that things are changing. Pp have pointed out that certain countries have brought in wider choice for women. Great. As you say, the sparkles can be attractive and people like them.

Doesn’t change the fact that gymnastics has a murky past of exploiting young girls and doing close-ups on their crotches.

Nothing like football strips at all, which you must know.

I think gymnasts are incredible. Many of them probably love the outfits. But why pretend that there isn’t a thread of misogyny in the way the sport has tended to operate?

And when she and Ali Raisman went to court to speak to their experience, they were of course dressed in formal, sober attire.

It's very easy for predatory professionals to abuse women, especially younger women. This should not make us associate a youthful style of clothing with sexual naivety. Biles is a married woman who wears what she chooses.

Yes, they do. The men's gymnastics being performed today in the Olympics is called Men's Artistic Gymnastics, or MAG for short. Google is your friend.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artistic_gymnastics

https://www.british-gymnastics.org/gymnasts/disciplines/mens-artistic/374-gymnastsparents/gymnasticsdisciplines/41-introduction5

https://www.gymnastics.sport/site/discipline.php?disc=2

And you've still yet to explain why the men's version of artistic gymnastics is better than the women's. Whereas it's obvious that a sport or event that men are allowed to perform but women aren't is better for men than women.

If gymnasts prefer unitards, their national federation will know it before handing out team gear.

I know about the male gaze. I haven't denied it.

I'm not at all convinced that's at play in sparkles, particularly! Commercialism, yes. But we don't escape these things.

Women can dress glamorously for themselves, and for other women. If they aren't criticised for doing that in other walks of life, why are we calling these gymnasts tacky? childish? sexually naive?

What agency are we prepared to grant these women, or are we just going to insist they are victims of the male gaze when their aesthetic preferences don't match ours?

More revealing sporting attire on my Twitter feed this morning. Nothing left to the imagination, hair removed. Disgraceful.

Or is this ok because it's a man? The female gymnasts are much more modestly attired than this IMO.

@Oftenaddled do you genuinely believe that the governing bodies actually listen? For all nations? British Gymnastics wouldn't even reply to Amy Tinkler when she contacted them about the awful comments made about her body by national coaches. Completely ignored her.

I always feel vaguely sympathetic to the pommel horse gymnasts because they look like toddlers flopping around in babygros with their little pointy feet.

They should rethink their attire to avoid pandering to my sentimental maternal side. Otherwise they will never grow into proper autonomous Men

She's not conflating, she's pointing out how grooming works. You're trying to divert from a serious comment you don't like by huffing about something she didn't say.

If they were groomed not to recognise what was happening to them when it came to sexual abuse, they were also capable of being groomed into thinking that it was perfectly normal to wear a leotard that exposed your bum cheeks and possibly even your crotch when you did the splits... We'll all have seen female gymnasts hoicking their 'practical, comfortable' leotards out from between their cheeks at the end of a routine. Leggings would be far more comfortable.

Yes this exactly! Everyone’s views on everything are formed within the context of the society and culture they grew up in, but apparently that’s not ok for this group of women. They should have agency and apparently that agency should be to want to be more like the men. Doesn’t matter Sanne Wevers enjoys leaps and spins and the Brazilians designed their leotards.

I think we are making progress. I'm glad of that. I cannot see why British Gymnastics would object to any of its athletes wearing a unitard.

I do not think calling athletes' attire tacky and silly helps to empower them. We should add our voice to other women's when they say what they need. We shouldn't drown them out when they aren't saying what we want to hear

There is no evidence on this long long thread of any Olympic gymnastic this year being in any way unhappy with her attire. And it's obvious from the variation that they do hair and makeup themselves.

Apologies, you’re right, I was talking about the athletes appearance becoming endemic to their performance/scoring and I don’t think it should be. Those who want to be glamorous should be and those who don’t shouldn’t. I would imagine some find it a release as reward for the hard grind they have to go through to get there. I was in no way having an opinion on how women should look, just how they may feel they should.

Sorry if I didn’t explain well. And I still think ‘have a day off’ was uncalled for and rude from pp. You can look through any of my posts, I don’t talk to people like that. 😊

Leggings would not necessarily be more comfortable. If a woman is comfortable in a leotard, it's okay if it occasionally exposes her buttocks. Let them choose.

@Oftenaddled I don't think the outfits are tacky. I just think that the culture has been to wear small leotards for so long it may be hard for a young gymnast to speak out and say she wants to wear more but if offered she may accept.

Hopefully BG is improving but it will be a big culture change for an organisation where they were forcing teenage girls to starve themselves very recently (Ellie Downie) to one where all athletes feel open and able to talk about their bodies and their needs around that freely.

We’re all victims of the male gaze. When a sport has traditionally been practised by very young girls whose appearance is scrutinised by the general public, it’s likely to be magnified.

I'm sorry but all of these comments saying "but look what the men are wearing" and "but male swimmers remove their body hair" are totally missing the point.

Sportsmen are not and have never been routinely objectified. They are not photographed half naked for ad campaigns or with cameras zooming into their bums and crotches. There are no male equivalents of Martina Navratilova or Serena Williams or the littany of other superstar female athletes who have been viciously denigrated for having the wrong look and the wrong body. It's a completely ridiculous comparison.