To leave my teenage son behind on days out?

[PrettyPleaseXo]

For context, I have a 4 year old DS who loves being outdoors and going on days out. I also have a 13 year old DS who would rather eat his shoe than leave the house when school is not on. He spends his days either on his PS5 with his friends or out with his friends or girlfriend. However, if I suggest that he comes out with us for a day at the beach or to the local lido he physically recoils and declines. I have "forced" him previously to come on days out and because hes peed off at being made to come he always ends up ruining the day by winding his little brother up and setting him off on a tantrum or just being vile.

Am I being unreasonable by just now accepting his refusal and not making him come? I swear it looks like I have one child on family days out photos!

He is obviously happier doing his own thing and he’s at that age where days out for your younger DS will not be suited to his tastes. It sounds like it is better for everyone for him to stay at home - YANBU at all OP

Have you given him options or asked if there’s any days out/trips of his choosing that he would fancy though?

Thank you! Oh yes many times, however he just doesn't like to come out with us which I completely understand. I think it is more I have friends with children of the same age who still actively go out with their parents and its made me question my parenting

Out with friends, fine. Empty house with girlfriend, not fine. PS5 all the time, not fine.

Are the days out always focused on what a 4yo would like? What would he like outside the house?

I used to have a 13 year old and a 5 year old. Honestly, they just don't want to come out with you, and the age difference is too much to please them both at the same time. I used to leave my eldest at home. Or sometimes we'd just take one of his friends to places like the lido and we'd all have a great time separately. Your 13 year old probably does like the lido, just not with you and his little brother at the moment.

Just to clarify the house is not empty and he is with his nan on the days we go out and he doesn't want to join. His GF is not allowed in his nans house and my house is locked.
He has been given plenty of options for days out but refuses

This is very reassuring, thank you! Yes I have no doubt he would love it with his friends, just not me anymore.

I do think it's important to spend time with your teens. Could the younger one stay with his nan sometimes and you do something more appropriate with your teen?

I completely agree and I have tried to encourage him on days out with just the two of us but he just says he doesn't want to come

I agree with not forcing him to do stuff he doesn't want to do, but I think you should find something he will be happy to do with you on his own without the 4yo, if at all possible, even if it's just for an hour or so to a cafe - if you're not doing that already. It risks the creating the impression that you're favouring the younger child if not, which I'm sure you are not. It's also my experience that feelings like that often don't get recognised or verbalised until much later, so you can think everything is fine and then years later, out comes the resentment.

I completely agree and this is what I am struggling with; everything I suggest which is age appropriate for him and to do with just me and him he refuses

I have a 13 year old, although he is an only child, so no siblings. He does come out with my husband and I for days out. Sometimes he'll have a whine, because he'd rather stay at home on the Xbox or out with his friends. Most times, once he's actually out, he enjoys himself! I think in your case, there is a large age gap between your children, and it may be he simply isn't interested. Unless a special occasion, I'd leave him to it at home or out with his friends. You may find, he naturally, after not going with you a few times, starts coming out again, especially if it's not 'forced'!!

What are his hobbies/sports? Do you take him out to compete/train for this? Spending time together outdoors as a family doing things that interest him are important too.

How about the odd pizza and gaming evening with him?

Spend time with him in his world instead of expecting him to spend time with you in yours. Hopefully that'll make you closer and then he might value time spent with you doing other things.

He absolutely refuses any time together such as movie nights, gaming nights etc I have tried

And I agree with your friends. I have an 8 year gap between my 2, so had a 5 year old and a 13 year old. Our 13 year old did not get the chance to say no. But - we did include things for him, so if could have been a trip up to the Lakes for a couple of days with some walking, but also Go Ape or a trip in a motorboat etc. One evening he could go to the cinema with DH. When home, he could go back to gaming - but we insisted that he came with us on days out. If he had tried to spoil it, the PS would have taken a trip to my work for a week.

OK, so this behaviour is downright rude, and if either of mine had tried this I would have shut down their online life.

It’s not acceptable to refuse to spend any time with your family as though they disgust you. One or two days a week I would insist on a family trip.

Thank you for your suggestions. I feel as though maybe starting by having a "family night" once a week may be a good start and "forcing" him to partake

This sounds really tough op. I would suggest not allowing him to refuse all family activities, don't make a huge deal out of it bit remind him you pay the electricity bill for the x box and how lucky he is etc and so he must give something back. He might be sulky at first but will grow out of it.

At 13 I would rather saw my own leg off than be seen out in public with my parents. We had a few rows about it if was an essential outing, buying school uniform, shoes etc, but they pretty much left me at home for anything non essential

That’s just rude. It sounds like things like his PS5 have become far too central in his world. Do you limit how much he can use it? I think you’d be surprised how quickly he’d consider a day out if he wasn’t allowed on his PS5 daily.

Forcing your teenagers to socialise with you is a bit like forcing them to finish their plates. It might seem like the sensible move but has the potential to backfire on their mental health in the long run. You need to work up to a point where it’s consensual and enjoyable on both sides rather than making family into a chore

We didn’t force DD at this age and now she’s 16 she will often come if it sounds like something good. I think making them join for family dinners, wider family events is enough as we found days out were just spoilt in the same way

I've always given my two a fair amount of freedom, choice and independence but there are certain things which I insist upon - when I describe something as non-negotiable they generally accept this as the case. I don't use the magic phrase very often but in your case for example, I'd be insisting on family meals at least and maybe one evening a week to do something together. And chores of course. There is a balance to be struck, your son doesn't get to treat you with disdain - especially in your home - whilst enjoying all the things you do/provide for him.

I’m in the same sitch as you OP teenager and toddler. Teenager has reassured me they really really really don’t want to come and I have no need to feel bad, I think its the parents that feel worse than the teens. I’m sure if he wants to come he will.

I am also 10+ years older than my siblings and I always opted to stay at home than go to the zoo/park etc because a free house to use the house phone was a day not to be missed!

Edit to say- family or special occasions are non negotiable though.

17yo DS stays behind to wait in on parcels and/or dog sit whilst we do day trips to the beach etc. He doesn't mind.