DC’s teacher didn’t go to university.

[RabbitWedge]

Two of my DC’s are at the same secondary private school. It’s a small private school, not a well known name, but costs a small fortune nonetheless. An interaction with one of my DC’s English teachers at the end of term has made me feel uncomfortable.

‘Mrs Jones’ has worked at the school for a number of years. She is a very well liked English teacher; the children love her and she’s given high praise on the parents WhatsApp group. At the end of term, I was having a casual chit chat with ‘Mrs Jones’ and the topic of university came up. I asked ‘Mrs Jones’ where she went to university, and she stated that she had not gone and didn’t have a degree. I must have looked very taken aback, as she quickly added that she had an impeccable educational record (apparently all A’s and A*’s), she’d been tutoring for a number of years and working as a TA, at which point the school promoted her to teach English. I didn’t ask for this explanation, but she perhaps felt the need to justify her teaching.

I was under the impression that all teachers had to have degrees at the very least, and whilst I don’t doubt her popularity and delivery of her English lessons, I am concerned. I was aware that teachers in the private system didn’t need to be qualified teachers, but to not even have attended university seems unsuitable.

Would you raise this with the school in my position?

Why would it be a waste of money? Because you could send them to a state school and get a qualified teacher for nothing

It's like paying to go private for medical treatment and ending up with an unqualified doctor

Teaching doesn’t require you to have a degree in the subject you teach. It just requires you to have a degree

He may be ace but he isn't a qualified teacher. This is just diluting expertise in my opinion. At 21 he will have little life experience or skill in dealing with parents probably twice his age. Not his fault but it's an issue.

This.

You didn't "discover it by chance", you asked her! It's clearly not a secret.

She's a good teacher. Private schools do what they like. Send your kids to a state school if that's not up to your standards.

No it doesn’t. There are always exceptions to the rule, but in most cases those who do well ‘on the job’ also do well in the more academic modules. Nursing is no longer about sponge baths and making tea. Nursing is a highly technical role which requires thorough understanding of legislation, medical technology, medicines, and physiology/anatomy. They need to be able to communicate effectively with multidisciplinary care teams orally and in writing. If a nursing student can’t master those then they’re in the wrong job. This is particularly important if you want nurses to be able to progress and specialise, and to train new recruits.

Nursing is often denigrated and low paid because it has traditionally been seen as ‘women’s’ work but if it was a male dominated profession there would be a lot less sneering and much higher pay.

I have a PhD in solid state physics, I can say with complete confidence; it would help me not at all to teach GCSE science and probably not A levels either. All it would do is contribute to the school’s bragging rights.

But what happens if your child or children have no need for a qualified teacher who is going to insist they sit in a classroom for the next 7 years learning things they will never use again in their lives.

A friend who was a nurse (equivalent to a Matron in charge of 3 or 4 wards) didn’t have a degree and was devastated when under the last labour government was made redundant
She found in the year leading up to her redundancy that she was given degree educated nurses who thought it wasn’t their job to empty bed pans or do sponge baths or make tea.

They had a degree so that was beneath them

So actual nursing is beneath nurses these days - which accounts for a lot.

Justification will be that most people know that private school teachers do not need a degree 🤷

Friend has recently had safeguarding issues at her daughters school, and discovered that several of the new male teachers haven’t had either background checks or have DBS.

@Shaketherombooga which school is this?

I don't know if it is different for sciences, but DD's PhD qualified English teachers (two of them so far) definitely seemed to be giving much more interesting and deep dive content than you would normally expect. Come to think of it one of her physics teachers also did so, so perhaps it depends on the person. He was so obviously passionate about his subject that it really contributed to the enthusiasm of the children. I would always rather be taught by someone who really loves their subject and I do think it's noticeable.

Having said all that, when I initially commented I didn't know that this particular teacher was only teaching up to GCSE and although I'd still prefer someone with a degree by a long long way, I do think most GCSE English content is probably teachable to an adequate standard by someone with no degree but a reasonable level of intelligence since the spec requires very little independent though, though I think at least some of the children would benefit from someone with deeper knowledge since hopefully it's not just about teaching to the test. I don't think someone without at least a closely related subject degree would be able to provide adequate support in science or maths subjects, not even for GCSE.

PhDs are optional and obviously don't confer teaching ability - but personal experience via my own schooling and DD leads me to believe that these teachers can be very inspiring when they are both highly knowledgable and also good at teaching.

@greengreyblue
I may be unreasonable to find this hilarious!! Paying all that mo ey and you end up shocked that your money doesn’t buy a degree educated teachersyyn

A pp has written ‘All of our teachers have degrees in my school, but we often have to teach outside of our specialisms to plug gaps in timetables.’

What’s the difference between a teacher without a degree and a teacher teaching a subject they’re not qualified in?

Being popular and liked as a person/teacher is very separate to whether you are competent. I have known a number of colleagues who are fun to be around, but good doctors they are not.

This is true - I was a teacher for 27 years and had to turn down job offers from private schools because I couldn’t afford to take such large pat cuts.

When I’m in hospital I am reassured to know that the nurse has done a three-year nursing degree BUT it doesn’t guarantee they will be a good nurse.

I definitely agree that passion for a subject is of utmost importance and a PhD is probably a good indicator of that.
I’d disagree with anyone saying that holding a qualification that requires research in a novel and quite specific area of a subject is any use for teaching the subject to pupils in school.

I teach maths A-level and I have a law degree. I believe I am good at it and have enough subject knowledge. :)

I have never met a head of maths with a maths degree

It must be very different in Scotland. You wouldn't get any maths teaching job without a maths degree.

really, wow! and you have maths graduates that want to teach? We don't have many of those in England

There are quite a few vacancies but they generally filled with new graduates or, in our area, mums returning after having children.

Ha ha 🤣 sorry but it's hilarious! You're paying a fortune and are getting your children educated by TAs with little education themselves!

I know teachers do have to teach subjects that are not their degree subject, but everyone knows it is less than ideal. It is simply due to a shortage of teachers in those subjects. But English is a subject where it is much easier to recruit a teacher with an English degree.
My English O Level was taught by a brilliant English teacher who taught us far more than just how to pass an exam. She dropped in various insights that I still remember to this day. That is why having someone who can teach and has a degree in the subject, is the best scenario. I would not be happy paying for a TA.
And those talking about private tutoring are missing the point. Revision of a subject, which tutoring is, is very different and is much more just about passing an exam.