To think vapes are not good for society

[MeouwCat]

I smoked for 25 years and quit after reading Alan Carrs book. Vaping maybe safer for individuals than vaping, but the vaper is still addicted to nicotine. I think that had vaping been around when I was smoking, I would still be vaping rather than being completely free from my nictine addiction.
The "vaping is so much safer than smoking" meme is leading to younger people taking up vaping and thus nicotine addiction is just not going to go away.
Then there is this:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c897qw8ddp9o#:~:text=Schoolchildren%20may%20be%20unknowingly%20smoking,side%20effects%2C%20including%20cardiac%20arrest.
I would like to see vapes only available on prescription to adults who want to use them as a path to freedom from nicotine addiction.

Smoking is not good for society.
Drinking is not good for society.
Drugs are not good for society.

Kids used to smoke as teens, kids used to glue sniff as teens, kids used to sniff aerosols as teens, vaping is the newer version of all of these.

I think they’re awful things and should be banned for everyone and especially under 18s. There was an article in the Guardian as well about the unknown chemicals in them including “spice” in about 15% of those tested. And then there’s all the plastic and battery waste too. TBH I think they’re worse than cigarettes - at least you know where you stand with a cigarette!

I agree they probably aren’t good for society.

But then I get to thinking about what actually is good for society? What are we here for?

Don’t pull at that thread. The whole thing will unravel 🙈

I agree @MeouwCat I 'get' why people may use them for a few months to come off the ciggies. I DON'T get why people 'take up vaping' and continue to do it. Weird as fuck!

Too many people have some kind of god complex and believe that they can intervene in other people's lives and ban things that they don't like.

I don't like meat consumption and don't understand why anyone would choose to disregard the quite clear evidence linking red meat consumption and cancer. It is, however, not for me to dictate how others choose to shorten their lives.

Alcohol misuse is a much greater social ill than vaping - when are we banning that?

I vape.

I never smoked so I was one of those weirdos that took it up.

I have (diagnosed) adhd and ocd, and having something in my hands or mouth when walking or driving helps me to ground myself if I feel like I'm going to struggle.

I've had fewer meltdowns since using a vape.

I agree. They are awful. I can see they are useful as a stop smoking aid but they absolutely should not be made to appeal to children or non smokers. They should make them taste of tobacco or something rather than sweets. I am very very anti.

They need to go.

But it's also Darwinism at work.

I gave up smoking years ago thanks to vapes and still vape now. I absolutely love it and feel it helps with anxiety. I don’t drink, do drugs or have any other real vices and enjoy it too much to give up. Is it bad for society? Maybe under 18’s or people starting without having smoked. I don’t think it’s great but neither is excess alcohol or drug consumption, I think vaping can be a crutch for some (like me) and in the grand scheme of things I don’t think it’s a big deal.

People enjoy vaping. They enjoy drinking alcohol and coffee. They enjoy eating cake.

Asceticism is boring.

Agreed that vaping is SO addictive.

I’ve never been a smoker-smoker, but have always had the odd fag on a night out, during stressful periods eg my dissertation, or as a special treat during stressful times. Probably between one cigarette a month and one every six months. I don’t get addicted. My DH is the same.

When vapes came out, we both tried it and got hooked. It was SO hard to break the addiction. It’s just too convenient, you can puff away indoors. It’s a totally different beast.

I still have a single fag every month or so, and enjoy it as a treat. But I can’t touch vapes, or I know I’d be all-in on vaping again.

The number of children/teenagers vaping is a big concern. These children would not be smoking cigarettes to the same degree. Their overall nicotine intake is probably higher than previous generations.

I think they need to ban the disposable ones and the flavours.

Full disclosure: I work for a vaping company. Regulations on ingredients and marketing are extremely strict and, in this country, overseen by the MHRA (the same body who regulate pharmaceuticals). Any e-cigarettes containing spice and THC are illegal, most likely bought from dodgy online sites and sold to minors without the mandatory age verification that is required by law.
People who vape, generally love vaping. I don't understand the appeal personally, but then I have never smoked either. The amount of evidence suggesting that vaping has helped to decrease smoking rates is enormous. It has been endorsed by the NHS for this purpose.
Australia have long had a policy of only providing vapes on prescription and this is now being scrapped in favour of allowing over-18s to buy them (from pharmacies) because their smoking rates are far higher than comparative countries where vapes have always been available without prescription.

I wonder whether they are more addictive tghan cigarrettes, given that vape is pure nicotine and cigarrette smoke contains other stuff like tar that is not addictive.

@nearerthanfar Very interesting perspective. I would be interested in your opinion on how to stop under 18s getting their hands on vapes. And also the catastrophic environmental impact of the batteries being discarded.

In general I agree with you, especially with regard to children taking up the vaping habit and getting addicted to nicotine.

Smoking is also terrible for society, and I grew up with dyed in the wool smokers even though I never smoked myself and nor did my sister.

However, my very elderly mother has now quit smoking in favour of vaping. Still addicted to nicotine of course, but after 63 years of 50 cigarettes a day it's as far as she is willing or able to go (she had to after a severe dose of pneumonia almost killed her).

Do I prefer to be with her when she is vaping or did I prefer breathing in the thick cloud of smoke that followed her everywhere when she was on the cigarettes? I'll take the vape thanks.

I think that vapes do have their place for getting people off cigarettes, cigars or pipes. That's it though, and all should be the rechargeable vapes. Single use ones should be phased out because of plastic waste, which is a direction we do seem to be moving in. None should ever be sold to teenagers or younger children, which should be rigourously policed (easier said than done perhaps, but it needs to happen).

Vaping is great for smokers looking to quit. It cuts their risk of a raft of smoking related health issues. Unfortunately the tobacco companies saw it as a way to save and future proof their businesses. The companies weren’t getting the numbers of new smokers they needed to sustain their business model. They moved into vapes and actively marketed vaping at children. Now they have a huge market of teenagers who will be buying their products for years because they’re so addictive.

In Australia people under 18 now need a prescription to buy vapes. Adults can buy them over the counter but only from a pharmacy and in a very limited range of flavours. Also you can only vape in places where smoking is allowed. However there is a black market, but at least it has stopped people vaping in cafes and on public transport.

Personally I think disposable vapes should be banned, and actually they are being in many countries. From an environmental point of view they are horrendous.
As to how to stop under 18s getting hold of vapes, I have no idea honestly. Alcohol, cigarettes and drugs are also illegal for young people, but legislation hasn't had much more impact in preventing young people taking them up than with vapes. There is an argument that young people who start vaping may otherwise have taken up smoking - from that perspective it is likely better to vape because the harm of smoking is considerable. The harm of vape is, as far as currently known, much smaller. Obviously it's not possible to prove either that those people would otherwise have smoked, or that vaping is definitely safer than smoking, since it has only been around for 20 years or so - there's no long term data yet. But data currently available demonstrates vaping is significantly safer.

@MeouwCat the level of nicotine is limited by EU regulation so that it is comparable to cigarettes. Anecdotally I imagine the difference you speak of is down to the fact that smoking is limited - you smoke 1 cigarette and then you get on with your day. Another cigarette in a hour or so. But with vaping people can just keep using it, and inside, so overall they might consume more nicotine over the same time period (eg a day) vs a cigarette. Hopefully that makes sense

Whoever mentioned Darwinism…what the fuck for? Vapes aren’t going to kill anyone.

Anyway, roll on the legalisation of cannabis.

Interesting to see a couple of posters talking about positive effects on mental health. I stopped taking AD medications last year after decades of needing them. So diagnosed in the days it was shameful to be on them.

I'm starting to think it is not a coincidence that I also took up vaping last year.....

I wasn't more than a very occasional smoker so I never had a regular stream of nicotine in me, I'd get a head rush from the odd smoke.

There are obviously a lot of benefits to nicotine which tend to be suppressed by the media and the medical profession.

I don't vape every day, but it's helpful in many ways.

However, it's like anything, too much alcohol etc is also going to cause problems.

I joked with someone the other day that sugar, caffeine and nicotine are basically keeping workplaces/society going at the moment.

But then I realised it's not really a joke....if we lose those things now, everything will fall apart.

Smokingvrates in Australia are NOT higher than in comparable countries where vaping is allowed. That is just misinformation put out by the vaping lobby. For example Australian smoking rates are 13% compared with UK at 14%. In any case vaping restrictions were only introduced very recently and have not yet had a chance to affect smoking rates. The real reason the regulations have been loosened recently is due to the Australian political system which means that the government often has to compromise in the with minor parties as a trade off to get more important legislation passed.

Vaping is so very easily available. It's cheap, it's accessible, it's portable, you can do it in public.

I was thinking though, watching people vape recently, about the intake being much higher than traditional smoking. A traditional smoker isn't sucking on a cig as many times in an hour as someone with a vape in their hand. Multiply that over 24 hours and it's quite eye-opening.

I read that vaping isn't good for people. I'm ambivalent about people vaping. Second-hand cigarette smoke made me feel ill, made my clothes and hair smell, and that was my objection to people smoking. I'm not affected in the same way by vaping. The sickly, sweet smell of vapes is nothing compared to cigarette smoke, and purely from that point of view, I'm happy for people to vape.

I find the scented ones highly intrusive - the smell gets everywhere, even outdoors....I can smell it when someone drives past vaping. I wish they could all be made scent free.