AIBU to think that my upstairs neighbour cannot decide to build an extension on my flatroof without my explicit permission?

[BaleOfHay]

London converted terrace. My upstairs neighbour (with whom I share the freehold of the building) has submitted a planning application to build an extension out on to my flat roof. AIBU to think that A) he's a CF, and B) they need my explicit permission for such a build? Surely he can't build on my roof without my permission??

Couple of things i dont understand, did you say OP that you own the freehold 50/50? What about the basement flat, shouldnt it be owned 33/33/33?

Second, the poster saying that there should be a diagram in the leashold information with the boundary in red, this is not always the case, outlines of property boundaries are terrible and not always clear, my house is the same on the deeds, its not clear where the boundary walls/whose responsbility the boundary walls are

Thanks all. The freehold is 50/50 not 33/33/33, downstairs never took up the offer to buy a share so it's only two flats that share it.

Planning have confirmed that me not giving permission for a build on my flat roof is NOT grounds to object to a planning permission!

I think another poster already said it wouldnt be grounds for refusal/objection

I think grounds for objecting is usually that something is out of character for the area, it would lose or ruin a historical/heritage integrity of something/the area, or that it would be dangerous for roads/transport something like that

Its not about whether you like it or not

We had a neighbour put a very high fence up (higher than what is legal apparently) and cited right to light and that it affected our light, council said there was no such thing apparently.

So blocking your light probably not part of the objections either. Being overlooked, is usually solved by having those windows that are mottled or whatever they're called/frosted

Its more about that the building would be damaged perhaps? Not safe? Liable to fall down?

I’m surprised you didn’t know this to be honest.

You own the roof but not the space above it, it’s complicated and unfortunately for you the precedent has been set with your build. Your objections could all have applied to the flat below when your bathroom was built.

You can fight it but I suspect that you would lose. But keep in mind they’re responsible for ensuring your property isn’t impacted and that would include fixing any damage.

Can you put in a carbon copy planning application for an upwards extension on your flat roof? 😆

It is a thing but it’s a very clearly defined thing and difficult to object to builds using that.

Again i don’t think planning would care on the grounds of it being unsafe re foundations. That would be a building regulation issue and permission could be granted on the understanding that the neighbour would need to sort that out as part of the building process. Obviously if building regs said the foundations weren’t suitable your neighbour wouldn’t be allowed to improve your foundations, in fact I’m not sure how they could even assess the foundations.

I'd imagine a flat roof extension wasn't strong enough to build on? That would need checking for a start.

My only thought was if you wanted to extend is it surprising someone else wants to too? Especially in a flat where it may not be so easy.

This makes zero sense. Do you think people with mortgages never do extensions, renovations or loft conversions?

The planning department considers solely planning law when dealing with an application for planning permission.

For information, advice or action to protect your rights to your property and the space above it against your neighbour you need a solicitor who is experienced in or specialises in property and freehold, leasehold etc.

You should have legal documents such deeds of title, registration or transfer and leases specifying covenants etc to inform you and your solicitor as to the arrangements made when the properties were created and subsequently sold and bought.

It’s in lots of standard mortgage terms to not do any works that reduces the value of the property as it is the lender’s security. Extensions and loft conversions usually add value so it’s usually ok. The OP’s neighbours plans might reduce the value of her property and as such her lender may be interested.

YABU to ask the question here, and keep returning here with more info, rather than (a) asking in the legal section and/ or (b) consulting a lawyer, with the relevant expertise, in real life.

Yes, anyone can apply for, and receive, planning permission, even if they don't own the land or building in question. (This is quite commonplace - property developers do this all the time, speculatively, before going ahead with a purchase of property). I'm shocked that so many posters seem surprised/ outraged to learn this.

But they would still need permission from the legal owner before doing the work. And would need to get it signed off in terms of building regulations. Buried in amongst all the posts here is lots of useful advice. But the most important one is to get proper legal advice asap based on your freehold agreement and the documents you got when you bought the flat!

Lots of things could reduce the value of your home, such as a hulking great tower block going up on adjacent land and blocking your light / view.
What's your lender going to do about it?

If you couldn't apply for planning before purchasing land, how could you ever reasonably find out if you could build what you want on it if you bought it?

With your thinking, you'd have to buy it, apply for planning, find you can't build what you wanted, then sell it again.

I do get that people find it hard to understand that you can get planning without having the legal right to build, but think about it the other way around: if you live in a normal house on a normal street and tomorrow your neighbour comes round and starts digging foundations in your garden for an extension to their house, would your objection be that they didn't have planning permission? No! it would be that they have no right to build on YOUR property. The PP is irrelevant.

This seems pretty clear cut to me.

He can’t make alterations or additions to his flat without your permission as Lessor/freeholder.

“Not to be unreasonably withheld” IMO it is clearly reasonable to withhold permission in these circumstances due to the impact on your flat, and especially if the extension isn’t strong enough to support his.

What you need is a lawyer’s letter saying he can’t do this and threatening an injunction if he doesn’t withdraw pp application.

I think (having had recent issues with my neighbour) that objecting means nothing. You can, according to my council, sue him if the building causes problems as you mention. Doesn’t he need a 3rd party wall agreement? He definitely needs a surveyor to check the load bearing capacity of another floor and to establish exact ownership of the flat roof. Is it yours/his jointly as you both share the freehold? Will you then again share the freehold for the whole thing including the extension? Will you own half of the extension?

Very sticky, this. I’m appalled at your neighbour not even mentioning this.

This sounds bang on.

How’s it going @BaleOfHay x

One thing to add for everyone if it's not already been raised - planning applications are viewable online and most councils let you set up alerts. So I strongly suggest everyone have an alert for applications made within the vicinity of your property! If the application is very nearby you should get a paper letter notification, but why not have an extra layer of security? Means you will always know in enough time to object.

Sorry ihave not read it all, but wouldn’t he need access to your land to actually put scaffolding. If you don’t give permission for that how can he go ahead anyway.

This thread is bonkers. The very simple correct answer was given ages ago: even if your neighbour has planning permission, they can't proceed to build without the permission of the land owner. You are probably the (joint) land owner and have a veto over this according to what you've said, but you need to talk to a lawyer to check your paperwork. No-one can give a definitive answer without looking through your deeds.

More generally, planning permission is not granted to a person, it is granted on a building/location/project. The local authority says "we allow this development to go ahead at this location with these conditions." So you can sell on a site with planning permission and the permission remains. It's not tied to a person. But if you have a planning permission for an extension on your property, no-one else can just come along and build it if you don't want them to! Of course they can't!