AIBU to think that my upstairs neighbour cannot decide to build an extension on my flatroof without my explicit permission?

[BaleOfHay]

London converted terrace. My upstairs neighbour (with whom I share the freehold of the building) has submitted a planning application to build an extension out on to my flat roof. AIBU to think that A) he's a CF, and B) they need my explicit permission for such a build? Surely he can't build on my roof without my permission??

You need specialist advice from a property lawyer. Check your household insurance for legal cover as decent advice is not cheap, although in your case, it will be money well spent hopefully.

I'm surprised (and rather appalled) that apparently you don't to notify neighbours of a planning application in E&W.

I'm in Scotland and we've just had a notification through the post for neighbours on the opposite side of the road planning a kitchen extension. We're not going to object because it doesn't bother us. It's not even directly opposite but 100m or so further down.

In my borough, the council seems to take responsibility of notifying affected parties. So It's maybe just the case that the council has the responsibility rather than the applicant (and the council seems to have failed in this case).

I'm having a brain fart. Where is your roof? If your neighbour lives upstairs don't they have the roof?

Or do you have rooms which are ground floor and single story that he wants to build on. He currently looks out onto your flat roof?

Anyone can submit what they like, I imagine. I suspect it will come straight back to him saying "Errr, you can't submit a request to build on something that is not yours, mate".

I wouldn't spend money on solicitors now, wait until their request has gone through the first step.

All that aside, on a practical level, what would the impact to you and your property be if they did build on your roof?

From (bitter) experience
Call Planning & ask them to inspect ASAP. Tell them exactly what the issues are but make it clear that you are aware of the differences which are legal & which are planning issues. They can be very helpful so long as you appreciate the limits of their powers. Remember they advise the planning committee & getting them inside can make a huge difference.
Get proper legal advice asap and inform your building insurance provider
Under no circumstances allow any surveyor instructed by your neighbour on to your property. Refer them to your solicitors. Do not facilitate an inspection and (even if it costs you) NEVER agree to instruct a surveyor jointly with your neighbour. Let all correspondence go through your solicitor. Make no concessions. If they need to come onto your property for any reason, charge them ( you’re perfectly entitled to do this, even if the lease allows access for eg repairs.

Good luck

This. I work in the industry and agree this is the first step. If process wasn’t followed, the entire application is invalid and will be rejected.

Be aware that objections will only be considered by the local council planning dept if they fall into certain categories.

Next step is consult your freehold documents, usually joint freeholders have to agree for any structural alterations.

If the neighbour seems like they are still trying to proceed, you will need professional advice - speak to a party wall surveyor about whether the Party Wall etc Act applies (England & Wales only) as there will be a new horizontal boundary between your properties.

I think the application will be kicked out at the 'validation' stage ie. before they are duty bound to inform neighbours.

Thanks all, I'm awaiting a call back from a solicitor via by buildings insurance cover.

Key points:

• they did not serve me with formal notice of the planning application, although they have ticked the box to say that they have
• they have also ticked the box on the application to say they are the sole owner of the property (they do not seem to understand the difference between leasehold and freehold) and I do not believe that Planning necessarily check this out or consider it
• I actually live elsewhere - this was my pre-marriage flat that I now let as I have not been able to sell it - so even if they did post a poster on the wall I would not see it

Impact of the potential extension:

• the was subsidence when the building was converted before I built it (conversion in the '80s) so I'd be concerned that it would be exacerbated
• right to light - the build would block light to my property and the lease hold property of my basement neighbour
• privacy - they are suggesting a terrace on top of their extension, people on that terrace might see directly into my bedroom and overlook my downstairs neighbour's garden
• I do not believe that my extension was constructed with the intention of carrying the weight of an additional floor and I worry about that impact
• they are also talking about knocking down chimneys and removing chimney breasts - I am concerned that if that is not done professionally it could cause structural issues and ventilation issues with my flat

I also need to understand my obligations as freeholder if they do not stick to building regs etc. I am worried that I would also be liable for any penalties and fines etc.

Basically its a terrible and expensive idea in order for a 1 bed flat to gain an additional bathroom!

No, they're not bound to inform neighbours.

Who owns the property, or has rights to develop it, is nothing at all to do with Planning Permission.

This has been pointed out loads of times already.

They don’t own the floorspace on top of your extension so no they can’t just build on it.

Note that most of those are not valid planning reasons to object.

It certainly hasn't stopped here in England. Two years ago our next door neighbour applied for planning permission for something on his property and we got a letter through the door telling us that an application had been made and giving us details of how to view it online and how to object if we wished to do so.

There was also a notice put up on the nearest lamp post as well.

Why are you objecting?

If you extended your part of the house outward in the same way then it begs the question as to why you would try to stop your neighbour from doing the same thing?

Do you have a shared garden that the extension would look out onto or do you own it? Would he be looking into your windows if the extension goes ahead?

Just trying to gauge how it would impact you (privacy or otherwise) more then your extension impacted the neighbour above you. iykwim

Of course he should discuss it with you and clarify his plans and confirm he will get a structural thingy my fidget of your roof etc. which he will show you etc. etc. If he is able to give you peace of mind that it will be safe or structurally sound then that would be better. Or do you just want him to stop him - full stop?

It differs by area. The notifications to neighbours can be limited if at all. Likewise op states she no longer resides at the property herself so a public notice might have been missed.

hampshire here, i still get them too.

Regardless of issues of ownership, has neighbour had a survey of your roof?

they are also talking about knocking down chimneys and removing chimney breasts - I am concerned that if that is not done professionally it could cause structural issues and ventilation issues with my flat

For this sort of thing they will need a party wall agreement so the you. They will have to pay for a surveyor to represent you, survey your property and it holds them to account for any damage done during the remove of chimneys etc.

For the extension, their boundary on their lease is highly unlikely to cover the airspace above your garden/extension. They won’t be able to do it, it’s as simple as that.
Im surprised the architect drawing up their planning app didn’t make them aware of this.

@januaryjan - both my downstairs neighbour and myself bought the building as is, the existing extension (that houses our respective bathrooms) was already there.

The proposed extension would look into my bedroom (currently not overlooked at all) and would overlook the garden of the basement.

I am not 100% against it BUT I am concerned that he is not thinking it all through and that planning permission may grant him rights that I have no say over.

He has not had a survey of my roof (to my knowledge!)

@BaleOfHay you need to read more carefully the advice you’ve been given. Planning permission is different to ownership. Ownership and the rights and restrictions that come with it will be set out in your property deeds and lease. Even if your neighbour gets planning permission, that doesn’t mean he has the legal right to build. However, the council will not protect you or enforce your rights - this is a property law issue, not a planning issue. So you need to speak to a solicitor, not the council or planning department (although there’s no harm letting them know about your lack of consent)

None of these are valid points against planning, the key issue here is ownership of the space.

@zzar45 overlooking and loss of privacy are both valid things to mention in an objection. They might not be considered enough to block it but they are definitely valid considerations.

As other's have said, PP is a bit of a red herring in this situation and is just to assess whether the proposal conforms with local and national planning policy. It doesn't mean the applicant is legally entitled to enact planning permission on land owned by someone else. You need legal advice rather than planning advice. You might also object to the proposal if you thought that it (for the sake of argument) infringed your privacy - but there is a much more fundamental question about property rights which needs to be resolved.

Yep.

And what's required by statute and what each local authority chooses to do are different things.

This is all fascinating - I am amazed that you can apply for planning permission against the wishes of the property owner! But I accept planning and property law are two different things.

If - for argument's sake, he was granted planning permission, what would be the step for him to have the legal right to actually build the extension?