Competitive friend

[the7Vabo]

I have a friend that is very competitive about everything. It’s never been a massive issue between us as she mainly directs it at a girl she grew up with. She has a lot of self awareness about it and will often refer to the fact that she likes to be doing better than X etc.

Im fairly laid back about certain things, I’m not massively driven so mostly it’s never caused an issue between us.

My friend will often refer to how good looking she is, how thin she is etc. Most of the time I don’t care.

Recently it has caused a couple of issues. The first is both me & my husband have put on weight in middle age. Neither of us are happy about it. My friend has managed to refer to it a couple of times which has been hurtful but I try to block it out.

The bigger issue for me is that almost every time we talk she spends a lot of tike talking about our kids ages. My kids are 6.5 & 4. Hers are 5 and nearly 3.5. When 4 year old was barley a toddler my friend was very keen to tell me repeatedly that I no longer had a baby. She kept saying “you’re done with babyhood.” She now refers to her 3.5 year old as just out of babyhood. There is 9 months between the two of them. In our most recent conversation she acted shocked that my younger child had turned 4 and said “your kids are middle aged now”.

I know this sounds silly but this has been almost every conversation for about 2 years / my youngest is still a baby etc. If it was anyone else I wouldn’t think much of it but because it comes from a place of competition - like ha I have a baby/young cute kids and you have old kids I find it annoying. The tone is very dismissive as well - oh but your kids are so old, you’re life must be so easy. (I’m bloody exhausted). Anyways back to my cute little babies.

What I’m hoping for is any suggestions about how to shut this conversation down and get the point across. I don’t want a row about it, I just don’t want to listen it any more. Humour would be good.

Thanks for all your replies.

If your friend said “middle aged” once and you pointed out an age gap end of conversation that would be fairly normal.

However this isn’t once or twice. It’s constant. I know myself when you have a friend with a child a couple of years older it can sometimes feel like a planet you haven’t visited yet.

But this feels like more than that. Like it’s a tug of war for attention even though we are the only two people in the room. It’s almost like I had my baby time to shine now it’s her turn and I need to get out of the way.

But what frustrates me the most is she can’t ever do anything quietly. Like in this case if she thinks my kids are so old and hers are babies why can’t she just think it. Instead she brings up how I’m at a “different stage” to her, or “I’m done” (both her words) constantly.

Bingo on your first paragraph. My friend is also a very confident, outgoing and very flirty person. The last thing you would think if you met her would be that she’s insecure.

I like “that sounds competitive…” I’ve thought about saying something like “gosh this feels oddly competitive which is weird…”

I’m also trying to work out the psychology.

I think what it boils down to is the need for attention/admiration and the need to win and be seen to have won. In this case young mothers with small kids get attention.
She played a lot of sport as a kid, it was a huge thing in her family and she was good at sport. So maybe that s where it started.

When people say insecurity it doesn’t quite fit.
For example, I believe she’s very confident in her looks. What I don’t understand is why the rest of us need to validate that confidence.

Do you know her parents? I'd say she probably grew up around family who valued being small/the baby/ the youngest etc and that once they got to a certain age everyone ignored them. Is she the sort of person you can ask about this? It will be interesting to see how it pans out as her kids grow up.

What a dumb bitch. Sure you really want to be friends with her ?

What good points does this friend have? Your children are close in age as well; I don't understand her comments. IME people who conduct themselves this way are a bit insecure and projecting. I couldn't be bothered.

Your friend is a crashing bore

Find new friends and phase her out a bit.

I do. I’m not sure that explains it in her case. They are very unsentimental no nonsense types. It doesn’t mean she was short of attention, they were good parents. She was the youngest and only girl. One of her many brothers was very good at a particular sport and she talks about the attention he got in the household for that, she maybe she did feel she lacked attention in comparison but it wasn’t related to age.

I think the subject matter (having the younger kids, cute baby) is only the latest symptom of needing to be the best/most important.

I think the phrase that seems most accurate to me is queen of the castle.

As our kids age I expect eventually the subject matter will move away from their ages but might switch to something else. Or maybe it won’t and when my youngest turns 18 she’ll still be saying she has a child and I don’t!

You could turn the conversations upside down by boasting that having the oldest child is best - that your eldest kid was the first of the four to walk, talk, sit independently, use cutlery and start school depending on how ridiculous you want it to get. But why bother.

My older sister turns everything into a competition she has to ‘win’ - the best job, the prettiest, the most academic, the fittest - according to her, everyone is envious of her. With people like this, you can’t reason with them because they don’t think like you. They are exhausting and soon you will realise that you are relieved when (most) of the phone calls and meet ups, are over.

She isn’t nice and not having many friends is not enough reason to put up with her.

Do you really want to keep hanging out with her? She doesn't sound very nice

She would totally get on my tits.
Have you got nicer less painful friends to hang out with and then just cold turkey her?

I know everyone doesn’t agree with this but to me breaking-up with an old friend is a huge deal. It would be like letting go of a massive part of my life. She’s akin to a sister at this point.

Also, she can sometimes in quieter moments be absolutely fine even grounded at times. And I believe when she has supported me in darker times that it has come from a good place.

Its the princess side of her for want of a better term that I find difficult to deal with. And depending on what mood she is in that side can rear it’s competitive head.

I think you're possibly reacting to the (very odd) slights towards your children because you're not reacting towards the ones directed at you. You think you don't care about them, but on some level perhaps you do. Yes she's got some odd behaviours going on that have a psychological root, but always feeling the 'number 2' comes with its own psychological baggage too. Maybe you deserve more?

Also - 'When things are going badly she can be very supportive' - it's probably because she enjoys feeling superior when she sees you struggle.

I agree.

People like this often appear supportive in times of need.
Her support will be feeding her own ego primarily.

Ditch the bitch

Tbh I know how I could annoy her - I could go on and on about how having a son makes life complete, how being a “boy mum” has lit up my world etc, how my daughter is so small for her age. I suspect I’d be hearing those things if the roles were reversed. But it would be a toxic mess and to a point I think our relationship has worked because she is the princess and Im the laid-back support act.

i think women’s friendships can be the most amazing thing in the world but they can have some downsides.

My friend doesn’t have a sister. The relationship she had with a couple of her friends growing up was probably fairly close to sisters in some ways. She fell out with one and is still close with the other (who is the girl I’ve been referring to on this thread). Recently things haven’t gone very smoothly for that girl and my friend said I always wanted to beat her in life but I didn’t want her to fail. Which I think is affectionate on some level but a very unhealthy motivator.

I would constantly be bringing out the "oh just you'll wait, you'll understand how amazing x and x age is when yours are there" and smile sweetly.

What a weird thing to be competitive about. I mean, I've heard height comparisons, weight, age of walking, talking ability, even one proud mother pointing out how much more hair her DC had. But age? If that's the only thing that she can use against you then you, and your children, are doing very well.

Recently things haven’t gone very smoothly for that girl and my friend said I always wanted to beat her in life but I didn’t want her to fail. Which I think is affectionate on some level but a very unhealthy motivator.

Please reread this OP. This is t affectionate on any level. This ‘friend’ sounds horrid.

I think I’m reacting to the comments about my kids as:

1. I’m sentimental about them growing up so fast and I find with other friends who have kids we share that sentiment, like literally as I write another friend just texted that her youngest child is starting school this year and she’s “not able”. It’s not all the time of course, but little moments of sentiment. Because as they saying goes kids do grow up so fast and the years are short in a lot of ways.
   But my friend jumps straight too “I’m so glad I still have a baby”, “you don’t have a baby, a 2 year old is not a baby”, “you’re done”, “your kids are middle aged now”. We live in a world where my 2 year old is not a baby, but her 3 year old is just out of babyhood because it’s about her, her kids and her sentiment. I’m not allowed to share that stage.

2. it feels like they are being dismissed as less important/interesting. If my kids were 16 and 18 I’d still obviously want to talk about them.

About myself, you are correct on some level I do mind. I don’t think my friend is a competitive with me as she is with the girl she grew up with. But I’m still aware that she is a person who considers looks and size very important important. And that she is better looking and thinner.

Its hard to articulate, I have other friends who are also better looking and thinner but because it’s never been discussed it’s not a thing between us. I don’t have sense that they have considered my lesser attributes as such.

i guess I’m prepared to accept that dynamic. The times when I’m not is when it feels like she is crossing a line, by being smug about weight gain when I’ve obviously gained weight.

She sounds truly awful OP. A horrible friend. You should really look into why you would want to maintain a friendship with somebody who actively wants to make your children “less than”.
She also sounds like she may well end up being a horrible parent, given her obsession with weight and that she is already worrying about her daughter’s shape. I suspect if her daughter doesn’t (in her mind) reflect well on her she will be punished for it. I really don’t think you want to have to watch that unfold.
I have a friend who I think is unhealthily obsessed by her oldest child’s achievements. It is so boring to constantly hear her go on about them, and I suspect it will ultimately damage the child. It’s different because she isn’t really like this more generally and I can see with her it definitely does come from a place of insecurity, but it’s so tedious. I now deal with it by literally not responding when she raises another thing to show off about. I give her nothing back, just offer a cup of tea or something. But I’m not sure it’s a viable long term solution. And it is impacting our once excellent friendship.

I get where are are coming from.

She was sort of saying I always wanted to do better than her as I’ve always competed with her, but I wanted to do a bit better for her as in have the nicer house, I didn’t want her not to have a house. Given the state of their relationship/the dynamic that developed as they grew up that is actually caring. But I get it’s not normal.

I can relate to your last paragraph a lot. That’s how I often chose to deal with my friend when I feel she crosses the line, I’ll go silent generally.

Like with your friend I’d be SO tempted to ask “why are you so caught up in X’s achievements”. But you can’t obviously. There are certain things you can’t say unless you want to end the friendship. It sounds painful and I think it’s a real pity stuff like this can ruin relationships.

Like other PPs if this were my "friend", I'd just distance myself and let the relationship die. Some people are just hard work. Whatever her problem is, it sounds like something that is about her issues and nothing to do with anything you've done.

Spending time with friends should leave you feeling recharged and happy, not devalued/put down. What are you getting from this friendship that is positive?