To think there is no more money?

[Rainbowsponge]

And Labour have admitted this.

So many threads saying X or Y needs to be ‘properly funded’ (even though most of the time our spending is actually in line with comparable countries), but no acknowledgment of the fact there’s no money to spend.

And when you bring it up, posters completely ignore you or accuse you of being Jacob Rees Mogg

Wouldn’t the quality of debate be improved if we stopped burying our heads in the sand?

Because state employees have historically been paid less well than their private sectors peers. I think teachers, nurses, doctors, etc have had their pay frozen for decades and are now trailing miserably. Although civil servants, especially white hall civil servants have been over promoted and therefore over paid.

They’re not facts. It’s bollocks.

(The Tory government began legal action to recover money from Mone - not the criminal action - long before Labour dreamt up their gimmick ‘Corruption Czar’. I expect that ‘czar’ to fade away quickly: it’s bullshit for headlines.)

That would be four years ago in 2020.

amp.theguardian.com/society/2020/jan/28/disabled-man-starved-to-death-after-dwp-stopped-his-benefits

Precisely. Nationalise the water companies. Tough shit on their shareholders (Macquarie). I am an arch capitalist but they have taken the PISS.

I completely agree with you. Anyone in our friendship circle has the amount children they can afford. I understand people’s circumstances change but all too often on here you see parents who are no longer together and the absent parent isn’t paying maintenance, there needs to be something put in place to force the absent parent to pay more, the current rates payable for absent parents are laughable.

This next part is in general and certainly not aimed at @Notmycircusnotmyotter it will be contentious and I fully expect my post to be quoted with disgust when I say this. I have seen many women who have child after child after child to avoid work because benefits pay for them and before anyone starts it does happen. However, many on MN deny this ever happens. I was in education for many years and saw this year after year. It happens, some people do not have a work ethic.

Disability benefits should be means tested as can be seen by a thread today of someone earning £300k and wanting to claim for their child. That’s entitled behaviour. They can clearly afford to support their child but they want what they’re “entitled to”. I’m still trying to work out if that post was made to be inflammatory tbh. So many parents can’t work due to their children’s or partners disabilities nor do they have an income anywhere near this amount. That poster should be ashamed of themselves imo. Earning a huge amount and being able to live a comfortable life then even considering claiming DLA makes a total mockery of the full benefits system. When someone reaches adulthood and needs support with no other form of income of course our benefits system should support them but not when they have inheritance or savings, that poster today wanted to claim DLA for savings for their child. I have watched parents really struggle making ends meet whose children require a very high level of care, doing their best day to day and struggling on with zero savings. So many parents and carers really should be supported by our benefits system on a low income but they aren’t adequately supported. If it was mean tested it would make life so much easier for those on the lowest incomes.

Our education system is dire, children are failed every single day which is why I got out. I got sick of shouting at “the system.” Children who can’t cope in mainstream aren’t given the support they need nor are their parents/carers, there’s a lack of specialist schools where many children would thrive given the opportunity. Meanwhile, many parents are left being forced to have their child in mainstream school simply because there’s no where else for them to go. Some are exhausted fighting “the system” simply to have an educational setting that will actually understand and benefit their children.

Who knows what money is in the pot. I believe every single government has never given true figures to the debt we as a country owe nor money available. They’re all as bad as each other imo.

I worry for our future generations.

Disability benefits should be means tested as can be seen by a thread today of someone earning £300k and wanting to claim for their child. That’s entitled behaviour.

Why is it entitled for someone who pays a load of tax to have a benefit? Attendance allowance isn’t means tested, are you saying it should be? Should millionaires get a state pension?

I do agree that you should have the number of kids you can care for.

All the families I have worked with who have safeguarding issues have 4+ kids and often have the next one at the point when the mother is asked to start looking for work..............

If you can't support more than two on your own, don't have them.

This is laughable. I personally don’t trust Labour as far as I can spit them. Trust the process? Like some trusted the Tories before them? They’re all as bad as each other.

I wouldn’t and don’t trust Government stats, they manipulate them to suit themselves.

The economy is many times worse than Labours joke about no money

You don't believe this? Then you really don't want facts. Have you seen how much borrowing was under the Tories compared to labour?

You can say it's bollocks til you're blue in the face but it won't make it true.

And Tory action has led to nothing. I'm delighted with this new announcement about a corruption hunter from Labour. At last something might happen.

@Teentaxidriver

Because state employees have historically been paid less well than their private sectors peers

When was this? Over most of the last 2 decades average public sector pay was higher than private, in the last 2 yrs it has switched though.

No they shouldn’t get a state pension if they have inheritance and a private pension. Tax doesn’t mean you’re entitled to claim benefits. Simply because you pay tax doesn’t entitle you to take back from the pot. It’s like the winter fuel allowance, that should be means tested too.

Disability benefits should be means tested as can be seen by a thread today of someone earning £300k and wanting to claim for their child. That’s entitled behaviour

Um, no. The DLA is for their child, and their child is not on £300k.

DLA/PIP being means tested wont happen. No one, regardless of their income, should be worse off due to their disability.
The payment is for the claimant, not their household.
I know many women who are unable to work due to various disabilities, yet can only claim PIP because their spouse/partner earns too much for them to claim ESA/UC. It is their money, and it all they are entitled to. You would have that stopped, and they be 100% reliant on their spouse? That is a very dangerous position to be in.
Plus, what about the single disabled folk out there... "oh, sorry.. you are amazing but I can't have a relationship with you because I would have to pay for your disability".

And has been said multiple times now, DLA/PIP is a gateway to other support. It is the gold standard "proof" of a disabilty.

No they shouldn’t get a state pension if they have inheritance and a private pension. Tax doesn’t mean you’re entitled to claim benefits. Simply because you pay tax doesn’t entitle you to take back from the pot. It’s like the winter fuel allowance, that should be means tested too.

Surely there has to be some incentives for tax payers though? Don’t you think more people would take advantage of loopholes, work less etc if they knew they were wouldn’t get a state pension as they earned too much. How much would your inheritance or state pension have to be to eligible?

This is the problem, though. There is a culture of "if you can claim, you should" rather than benefits being an absolute last resort, because people have the character of wanting to provide for their own families.

I saw someone saying her son was a fussy eater & posters suggesting she applied for PIP to cover the additional costs of foods he likes as he might turn out to be neurodivergent!

It might not seem like much but I think it's the cultural shift towards trying to get as much out of the system as possible that's one problem. In days gone past, there was a pride issue of not wanting to claim help from the taxpayer unless you really needed it

@anonhop honestly I wouldn’t equate someone with a disabled dc and who pays a lot of tax to someone trying to claim PIP for a fussy eater.

Fair enough of you think it should be means tested but then I think everything would have to be which is the tricky part.

It’s 29th in the world? Still firmly in the wealthy (but unequal) category.

I see here that people blame
children living in poverty
single parents
long term unemployed
refugees

All these marginalised groups are apparently to blame in what is an extremely unequal country with a high percentage of wealthy individuals.

@XenoBitch you say that nobody should be "worse off" for having a disability. That's utopia, not real life.

People are going to be "worse off" for all sorts of reasons they can't help including:

• Health status
• Age
• Disability
• Intellectual ability
• Inheritance/ lack of

Benefits should be the safety net that nobody starves to death & everyone should be able to access basic healthcare etc. it shouldn't be trying to level the playing field - that is never going to happen & going to be an extremely expensive waste of time.

In days gone past, there was a pride issue of not wanting to claim help from the taxpayer unless you really needed it

@anonhop is there evidence of this? There was certainly more social housing in the past, people had more dc, the child benefit equivalent wasn’t mean tested, miras, etc. It seems like there was more help!

@Towelmode my point wasn't that they're the same, but rather that the mindset we have in this country is the problem.

Not necessarily saying we need to means test (don't know enough to comment) but we do need to have a cultural shift to where claiming benefits is a last resort & people feel the pride of providing for their own families.

Not sure how we manufacture a cultural shift, though!

Why have you quoted that bit and not the part that’s actually relevant?:

its like this after every Tory government (facts can be found in gov stats if anyone doesn't believe me).

I do think the economy is weak, but then, you know, Covid, Ukraine, energy crisis. But the economy was mending under Hunt, so I’m certainly pleased that Reeves is giving signals that she’ll broadly continue Tory fiscal policy. 👍

I disagree. It needs to be means tested. Why take money when you don’t need it?

I never once said anything about single disabled people, in fact what I said was When someone reaches adulthood and needs support with no other form of income of course our benefits system should support them

Did you miss that part?

If someone is married and their partner is on a high wage why should they get support? Of course if they left the relationship they should be entitled to support but if they are in an abusive relationship then of course they’re entitled to help.

Don’t try and twist my words. PIP/DLA really needs to me means tested on household income.

True in some times & places! But also far less in others, and certainly people earning good money I don't think would have been trying to milk the taxpayer for every penny.
Only anecdotal, though, and I don't have any hard evidence so perhaps wrong.

Even if not true of the past though, I think going forward everyone need to be slow to go to the state for help & try first to manage without

I believe David Cameron claimed DLA.

But DLA/PIP is not a safety net that means no one will starve. It is a means to get disabled people on a level field with the non disabled. Many people on PIP can only work and contribute tax etc, because they are on PIP.

Why should a spouse/partner pay for the disability of someone else?