To think there is no more money?

[Rainbowsponge]

And Labour have admitted this.

So many threads saying X or Y needs to be ‘properly funded’ (even though most of the time our spending is actually in line with comparable countries), but no acknowledgment of the fact there’s no money to spend.

And when you bring it up, posters completely ignore you or accuse you of being Jacob Rees Mogg

Wouldn’t the quality of debate be improved if we stopped burying our heads in the sand?

But businesses will increase their prices, so the workers will be no better off.

And what about public sector workers, i.e. hospital care workers. Taxes would need to rise to give them a pay rise, and they'd pay more tax, so they'd be no better off, especially if they lost benefits.

It's far more complicated than just saying "raise wages"! Look at the inflationary aspects of Brown's tax credits and benefits - they fuelled increased housing costs.

Thats a grim out look but the reality is that wealth per capita in the West is far far higher than in India and across the EU, its higher than China.

The UK has a per capita wealth over double that of China, as have all of the EU8.

Of course people have a choice, there is no reason for anyone to buy a MG EV made in China, plenty of alternatives & rather short sighted given the messaging we keep getting in regard to China.

Volvo still make vehicles in Sweden (vast majority of production) and recently opened a factory in the USA.... maybe do a bit more research before making all these ridiculous claims.

Absolutely right...but...in work benefits were a construct of the Blair government to create a dependency on the state that he though would lead to Labour being in power for ever, but which actually just transfrred more public money to the private sector (by subsidising staff costs ane increasing profits) than any conservative government has ever done! Income supprt and tax credits cost £44billion a year. That's over a trillion pounds transferred since they were introduced!!

If a company cannot pay its workers... its not a good business model in the first place.
Shall we have a look at the likes of Amazon ( for example) ... who certainly could afford to pay decent wages but decide not to...

If Amazon paid ALL those working within and for it, an extra pound per hour then it would be bankrupt! Just do the Maths! The owner could give up his profits but all the staff would be barely any better off and would still be claiming benefits!

I did an analysis of Tesco's accounts once a few years ago. If their profits were zeroised and all staff were paid a bonus, it would have worked out something like a pound per week, and without profits, there'd be no investment, development, etc., so the firm would be crippled and ultimately collapse - for £1 per worker per week! The profit "per store" was actually pretty similar to the profit made by smaller/independent stores on a size basis, so basically Tesco don't make excessive profits - it's just because they have hundreds of stores that the overall figures "look big"!

It's all a numbers game.

Companies ultimately pay the least possible to workers they can get away with, in order to maximise profits and compete. It's called capitalism. Within companies, top level gets many times the ratio of the majority middle and bottom layer, masqueraded as "talent retention" or competitiveness.

The shoddiness of public-private contracts money merry go rounds have messed up everything further, reducing social security safety nets and created little pockets of wealth in public services, whether in housing, council services, NHS or education. Work is highly disintermediated from wealth-building and saving.

Tories have made an absolute convuluted mess that any party will struggle to disentangle and clean up.

So it is easier to take on workers and their savings, with all sorts of nuances to make it seem like they are not attacking... 98% of the population.

I'd be very disappointed if Labour imposes a pension tax and disincentivise ordinary workers more, including the very large middle class population in the country.

That is why we have a minimum wage, that should be higher.

What a load of shit. In work benefits were designed to encourage people into work who would otherwise be caught in a benefits trap. It was not designed to make people dependent on the state to ensure Labour would constantly be in power.

Although those in power on the right have bought up most of the media. They've also done a lot of scaremongering over the years: if you don't vote for us you'll be taxed to within an inch of your life, you'll pay huge inheritance taxes (despite the fact that most estates are not big enough to even be taxed as there are huge allowances).

I agree. It's ridiculous to claim AA when you've got hundreds of thousands in the bank. And people do because I know them!

Paying lots of taxes doesn't mean you should try and scrape some of them back. It's about ability to pay not about levelling out.

AA is awarded to help with carers. If it was means tested I think we would just get more hospital admissions.

There is plenty of money.

It's just misspent

Somebody locally put in a FOI request about new wooden sunloungers installed by the council. £5500 for large ones £3500 for small ones.

They were wooden sundowners that could be knocked up for £200.

That's why there's 'no money'

AA is the equivalent of DLA or PIP for elderly people. It is awarded to people who need help to eat, dress, wash, and get out of bed. It is usually easier to get as the people getting it are usually being discharged from hospital and have had hospital care assessments, so there is lots of evidence or lots of other evidence. I do not know anyone who has got it who does not already have significant medical involvement. My FIL got it from the hospital care assessment paperwork.

@Eart they were installed, that costs.

Don’t know about the first bit.

But the part about the right wing media is horseshit. There’s also left-wing media and neutral mass media (all the broadcasters). And then there’s online: that’s where Labour has been very successful in its relentless campaigns of falsehoods.

I particularly admire the lies and brass neck of Labour about Covid spending. All topped off with this bogus ‘Corruption’ Commisioner.

This.

Military, wasteful Covid expenses, Tory interacts offered to friends... always money for those things

Eligibility for Attendance Allowance

You can get Attendance Allowance if you’ve reached State Pension age and the following apply (unless you might have 12 months or less to live):

• you have a physical disability (including sensory disability, for example blindness), a mental disability (including learning difficulties), or both
• your disability is severe enough for you to need help caring for yourself or someone to supervise you, for your own or someone else’s safety
• you have needed that help for at least 6 months

You give them details of your disability or medical condition and medical contact details. The assessors contact the medics. These are people who usually have loads of medical evidence and fairly often care assessment plans in place.
I would guess that most people getting Attendance Allowance need far more daily care than most people getting PIP. These are usually people who can't survive without a carer coming in.

The evidence for treatment of most mental health diagnoses is poor. The explosion of mental health drugs and professionals has worsened outcomes, not improved them. A mental health label can be incredibly damaging to a young person. The vast majority of young people with a mental health label need social connection and meaningful activity not drugs or therapy. This can be provided through quality work with protections for employees from exploitation. Reduce migration, provide more apprenticeships and vocational training, make sure they are paid well. Make our economy an attractive place for high skilled workers. Invest in good infrastructure for all like council gyms and parks. Mental health will improve.

I totally agree. Get them volunteering and then into work. Help them go walks in green spaces and go swimming or to the gym. Our current approach to mental health does not work and it is parents who need to fix it for young people, not the NHS. The NHS should be helping those with the most severe mental health problems.

Excellent debating skills - thanks :)

However, if your assertion is correct then the next most obvious conclusion is that the policy was ineptly thought through and implemented without a thought for the medium or long term consequences. But that's OK, because it was only ever a short term vote winning policy - soundbite politics, mastered by Bliar and Mandelson.

See also increasing thr number of those doing degrees to 50%, without in parallel investing in tech or industry to create the jobs requiring all the graduates. Result: number of graduates > number of graduate jobs, and a lowering of graduate salaries dashing the hopes of at least a generation

I think the issue is EVERYONE claims theirs or their loved one’s difficulties are ‘extreme’ and it’s everyone else who should increase resilience without professional input.

It’s no longer acceptable to say somebody is only suffering a ‘little bit’. Everyone seems determined that their struggles are utterly debilitating and worthy of the highest level of support, and anyone who tries to put these things in perspective is some form of bigot or a ‘nasty piece of work’ blah blah

Several universities are close to financial collapse now. They’re not the older or more sought-after ones.

Blair’s university education fraud is going to come crashing down within 10 years.

Pay more tax my arse. Read please how the Bank of England prints the cash for free, government pretend it's quantitative easing, pound is devalued, inflation kicks in, interest rates rise ....... and you want them to steal more of our cash because??????

Thanks :) Nice to be appreciated.

Oh right, so the Conservative Party's policies are always so well thought through, yes?

Going so well with privatisation? Yes, railways, cheaper? Fewer cancellations? Better rolling stock? Oh wait.... Oh and Thames Water paying out billions in dividends and yet struggling to plug leaks and keep financially viable. Another triumph!

And Brexit, heralded by most of your lovely friends in the last Government. And that went well for people like, oh let's see Jacob Rees Mogg who moved his business's head office to Ireland cos it's, you know, easier to be in the EU. And no EU bureaucracy, true? No, instead there's millions more customs documents every year, and greater delays at borders. Not to mention greater costs to business. What a brilliant wheeze.

The fantastic efforts of Liz Truss - if that's the Party for the economy, and that's their biggest strength - how many billions more do you want to wipe off the economy?

And Michelle Mone, proving that politics is the business to be in if you want to steal a few million off the taxpayer.

But yes, let's slag off a policy that brought millions back to work while providing a decent salary and getting them out of poverty. Yes, I can see why you think that's a terrible idea.

Hmmm what do we want? More downgrading of public services, greater lies and corruption by our politicians. I can see why you would want more Tory Governments.

A lot of the problem around mental health provisions stem from the fact that many if not most mental.health issues are caused by having a shit life due to living in poverty or with little hopes of a better future. We've had a big recession and there are many areas in the country where there simply is no work or prosperity at all, life is hard and proper suffer from depression and anxiety not because there's something wrong with them but there are problems beyond themselves that they can't fix..

The vast majority that I help to claim it are nowhere near needing carers. They might spend some of it on a gardener so I suppose at least some of it goes back into the economy. A lot seem to just squirrel it away in the bank