TAs does your primary school have them?

[dhlihdhb]

Apparently our primary school has decided they wont have any TAs next year other than those with a one to one. Is that the norm? Have to say am pretty disappointed but not sure how widespread that is.

I think it is wishful thinking (hoping) that subject teachers are trained in additional needs. I mean the school will say all staff have been trained but when you have a SEN child you realise that means precisely nothing!

The 1:1 for the child with an EHCP is funded by the LA for the provision of support to that child. The school can't be using that 1:1 to provide cover on the classroom.

I'm genuinely also interested to hear more about this, particularly how an LA school can force an LA to fund it. The LA would not allow a school to take the LA to court surely?

Schools are expected to cover a certain amount of SEND provision, whether that child has an EHCP or not.

Then any costs over and above that needs to be met by the LA, paid to the school.

That's standard. The challenge is agreeing that level of funding, but it's possible.

That's crazy and I've never heard of no TAs in a school, they are vital!

My son's primary school has TAs but they leave regularly. They are paid next to nothing, that's the problem.

The whole situation is such a shame.

No, the parents do, sigh. Because we don't have enough on our plates.

Under section 42 of the Children and Families Act 2014 the LA is ultimately responsible for ensuring the SEP detailed, specified and quantified in F is provided. This is an absolute duty and is non-delegable. It includes ensuring there is sufficient funding. Funding is not a lawful excuse for failing to provide the SEP in EHCPs. LAs can be forced to provide the SEP via JR.

I have supported numerous parents across the country to enforce their DC’s EHCP and done the same for my DC.

No I know, but a poster upthread has said the notional £6000 does not need to be funded by the school and is ultimately an LA responsibility.

That’s true the school does not need to fund the first £6k of SEP in EHCPs. EHCPs can be fully funded.

This doesn’t mean that the class TA is taken away and becomes a 1:1 to that student?

It’s always been drummed into me that the school pays their part and they have to. I’ve even heard it suggested that this is why schools aren’t too keen to support parents when they want to apply for ehcps.

Right. But can you answer the question about LA schools challenging the LA? I genuinely want to know how it works.

1:1 detailed, specified and quantified in F of an EHCP means it must legally be provided. It isn’t optional. A class TA is not legally required. If the school wants to/can provide a class TA on top of a 1:1 for a pupil with 1:1 detailed, specified and quantified in F of an EHCP that is a separate matter. But a child should not be without a legally required 1:1 in order to provide a class TA.

Many EHCPs are woolly and vague and therefore unenforceable, so 1:1 doesn’t legally have to be provided, and the funding isn’t there for 1:1. (Parents should appeal in this situation.) Many EHCPs are not fully funded because many parents and schools are unaware of SEN legislation.

If you read my post I said “the school could also support parents to enforce their DC’s EHCPs via judicial review.”

Schools could, in theory, bring JR proceedings themselves, but this isn’t as common as parents (the proceedings themselves are in the child’s name) pursuing JR proceedings.

Look, I'm really not trying to be difficult here so I don't know why your responses are so snippy. I said I genuinely wanted to know. You're obviously very knowledgeable, as are others on the thread, and I hoped I might learn something. I don't remember seeing the response in relation to the notional funding so I apologise. It sounds like quite a major undertaking - is it? A lot of parents with children with SEND have additional needs themselves; how difficult and time-consuming an undertaking is this? (Again, for the avoidance of doubt, I genuinely want to know more as have never known of a school doing this).

Yes I have been told before that the money can be allocated however the school decides and that it doesn’t have to be staff.

I do still believe I’ve done more for my class this year than I ever have just sticking to one child. Which is now where I want to see things go.

However, I’ve learnt something new tonight and see your point regarding class TAs not being a legal provision. Thankyou.

Schools cannot just break the law as they see fit, though. All DC are entitled to an education.

And this is the problem with the system, it’s too easy for local authorities to avoid their obligations if parents don’t have the ability to fight the system. DS has a fully funded EHCP which includes full 1-1 but I had to threaten court action for that to happen. Thankfully in my case quoting the law to them was enough for them to agree to do it but many others end up going all the way to court.

But a system that relies on parents ability to fight is never going to be fair. That’s not the fault of the parents who are able to fight though it’s the fault of the system.

Funnily enough, my DD's (state) school has lots! 2 in her year 4 class and neither are any child's one to one.
I was pleasantly surprised. DD says there’s 2 in her year 5 class which she’ll be going into in September

Apologies if you thought my post was snippy. It wasn’t meant to be. I was just repeating a previous post in case you had missed it.

The post was about funding of EHCPs. The notional SEN budget is irrelevant to that. The national SEN budget is rarely actually £6k anyway.

More often than not, the threat of JR to the Director of Children’s Services or a pre-action letter is sufficient. Although less so than it used to be. Few get the JR proceedings themselves. Even less get to an actual hearing.

The threat of JR to the DCS is fairly straightforward. Parents can use IPSEA’s model letter if their DC is not receiving the provision in F. SOSSEN also have suggested wording on their website. If the threat doesn’t work, parents need a pre-action letter. For failure to provide provision in F, SOSSEN can help with this for free. Although there is a wait. For parents who are eligible, legal aid is also available. Or if parents can afford it they can look for a firm to take them on.

If a pre-action letter doesn’t work, JR proceedings themselves are brought in the child’s name and they can be eligible for legal aid in their own right, even if their parents aren’t eligible. JR proceedings themselves take time, but you can request interim provision be ordered, and it doesn’t take as long as some think.

SOSSEN explain more about JR and the timescales here.

Some schools unfortunately, really don't understand that. A child's needs are a child's needs whether the school think they can meet them or not.

The provision in F must be provided. It isn’t for the school to decide whether to provide it or not!

Quite. And that's the problem we are spread so thinly already and then we have to fight the school, the attendance people, the LA. It's exhausting.

We have one TA per EHCP but just the one teacher.

An EHCP comes with different funding levels based on needs and not every child needs full time 121 care.

The £6000 is only paid while working towards an EHCP. Once in place it is additional to the usual funding. But each L.A. operates differently. Some expect you to pay for special seats or equipment out of this and some pay for it separately. A £7000 seat can eat into your budget quickly. Some give bursaries but no FSM provision.
Some LAs fund you for an empty space at 10k and some do not. There is no way to compare. We might get @£18 for one PP child but down the road provision would get 65k for the same child moving to private provision with the same support.

Other school we have TA's across the school that may cover different classes on need.

My point is that all dc are entitled to an education. Of course I believe this. I believe a resource such as a TA in a class should be just as important as a 1:1.

Sen numbers in a classroom, I think average around 5 in the majority of schools. For me it’s just over half my class. About 3 have met the criteria for an ehcp, what about those who don’t?

Schools do, do this. Then you're stuck in - school won't support getting an EHCP, but also can't meet your DC's needs.

However, that doesn't mean that by law it is the LA's responsibility to ensure adequate funding.