Am I accidentally involving myself in some kind of scam?

[SlimeSuspect]

I am a self employed small business.

Client calls me ahead of an event I am booked with him and tells me his accounts department have accidentally paid me twice via a bank transfer. I have checked my account and the duplicate payment is definitely there. Client asks can I please send the duplicate payment back, but not to the account of origin, via PayPal to his personal (non business) account? I don’t have a business PayPal account, so would have to do this through my personal PayPal account.

Is this usual? Should I be suspicious? It seems odd for a business to request a payment be refunded via a personal PayPal account. I have spoken to my bank and also PayPal who have both advised me not to do what he is requesting.

Most alarming of all is that my client is reluctant to move the conversation from text message to email (despite repeated requests, and the original contracts being arranged that way).

Does this scream ‘scammer’? Obviously I have already been paid, so won’t lose out financially, but I clearly don’t want to be involved in someone else’s dodgy dealings.

Also, before anyone accuses me of dishonest intentions, I have no intention of not transferring the over payment back to the correct place. My bank can’t disclose the account of origin, so that would need to come from the bank that sent the payment. I have asked him for the account details, to no avail.

Any thoughts on what might be going on here, and how I should proceed? I will have to work with this guy this weekend, so am worried!

I know nothing about this sort of stuff but it does scream ‘scammer’. Don’t do it. Wait for something official, or speak to the bank.

Absolutely scammer or could be money laundering - be very very careful
Suggest you only refund to the payment account, or you could be held responsible and fined for for being involved. They dont fuck about when it comes to being involved in money laundering!

I have spoken to my bank and also PayPal who have both advised me not to do what he is requesting.

That's all you need to know, and all you need to tell him.

Also yes get the instruction by email from your normal contact email for that client. I'd also confirm over the phone with him.if you recognise his voice?

Well at the very least he could be over inflating his expenses to reduce his tax bill. Will put down the double amount as your costs and have evidence of payment going out of the business account.
just say sorry you can only refund to the original payment source. No reason he can’t transfer after if he’s genuine and wants it in another account.

Sounds a bit off. I would contact the accounts department direct to inform them you have a duplicate payment. You are not entitled to this and they could demand it back immediately. Do you think this person has potentially copied an invoice of yours and submitted it, waited a bit then contacted you to say just pay them. Red flags 🚩

I would go back on email, to the contact who you have at the company, cc they’re finance department and say that you will transfer the duplicate payment via back transfer as recommend by your bank and please can they confirm sort code & account number.

It sounds dodgy via PayPal you’re right to be suspicious.

Scam or he is trying to defraud the tax man. How big is the company you are dealing with?

He is trying to steal from his business. Send a cheque to the business name.

Just hold your ground. Say you don't have PayPal and will transfer back to the business if he gives the details.

As per your bank and PayPal advice, just don't do it. It's dodgy as hell. Either money laundering, insider fraud or business email ccompromise.

First thing is, do not rush to do anything, no matter how much pressure they apply. Second, only ever return funds to the account they originated from, but wait until you are absolutely clear the original transactions have cleared and cannot be recalled/reversed/cancelled. Third, if there is any doubt that the person communicating with you is legitimate then reach out to someone more senior at the organisation and by a different means (not email in this case).

I had a variation on this one.

A scammer told me they had overpaid me a sum and when I checked my bank account it was indeed there.

BUT what the scammer had done was transfer the ‘overpayment’ from my own savings account into my current account and was hoping that I would just send it back without checking. Please be very, very careful. If necessary, keep them waiting whilst you do a thorough investigation before you move any money as there’s a strong chance you’ll never see it again.

We have a small business and sometimes get duplicate payments....we will only ever pay back to the account it came from . It sounds like he is fraudulently trying to scam his corp taxes/VAT or steal from his business . I don't think he is trying to scam you but I certainly wouldn't pay it into a PayPal account. If it sounds dodgy it probably is.

Yes - this. Be careful and make sure funds have definitely cleared, speak to your bank. DH had something similar where somebody booked onto a training course he provides and then said they’d paid twice accidentally and could he refund. When he sent the query through to accounts, they checked with the bank and the two payments hadn’t actually gone through yet so they’d have lost thousands if the refund had been issued.

If you’ve spoken to him in person (so it is really him) and it is his own business, it’s unlikely to be a scam because he would get caught… More likely to be a tax fiddle IMO.

I'm not an expert but this sounds like money laundering to me. It should go back to the account or came from.

Yes screams scam/money laundering
You're always taught to send money back to same account it came from

Tell your client that the money can only go back to the account that it came from.

Shops and other business never refund to a different account.

Yep, screams scam. You'll be laundering money for them somehow, and there will be another and similar mishap or problem soon.

Have you spoken to this "client" through an email address or phone number you can find elsewhere - anything you've already used other than this phone number?

Don’t even know why you’re asking, if your bank and PayPal have advised you not to do it.

Of course it’s a scam.

Your bank and PayPal have both told you not to do what he is requesting.

Any thoughts on what might be going on here, and how I should proceed?
Yes, my thoughts are that you should listen to what your bank and PayPal have told you

Money laundering or tax evasion

Absolutely scammer.

It sounds perhaps like your clients banking and phone has been hacked? That's why "he" doesn't want to move to email.

Maybe the scammer has set up a fake PayPal account. You send money there and the scammer wins and your client loses out as their account has had payment go twice but no trail to get it back or go to fraud/police as you are doing the dirty work.

Sounds scammy to me