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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

It's time that woke and identity politics ends, but not before the disabled get their turn

71 replies

SensibleGuy · 23/07/2024 17:04

Hi,

I am the least likely person to agree with the woke agenda or identity politics. We all know that this insidious craze has resulted in some serious crazy shi* in recent years. Yes, various historical injustices clearly needed to be fought and corrected, but identity politics plays into the hands of the far right and divides us like never before. It is one of the many reasons why Brexit happened and that Trump will likely win later this year (probably on a landslide.)

I've never been a fan of diversity targets or quotas either (for many reasons.) But given that many groups have already benefitted from such things, why should other groups continue to be excluded?

It always amazed me that disabled people are excluded from the diversity and inclusion agenda. Even when they are included by the BBC or mainstream media, they are only included as an afterthought. This is despite the fact that they are arguably the most economically and socially disadvantaged group of all. People talk about female or black (or Asian) presidents/prime ministers or CEOs, but the chances of a US president/British prime minister - whether white/black or male/female and having a clear or obvious disability is basically zero.

You only have to look at the current make up of our parliament. The media takes great pride in telling us how diverse it is, but there are, at most, only a handful of mps (out of 650) with any kind of disability. And that's before you get to the more controversial subject of mild v severe and visible v invisible disabilities.

I realise it's a complex subject. Take autism. If the Labour party goes ahead and mandates disability reporting for all medium and large UK companies, the cynic in me says that only those who are 'high masking' individuals will benefit. Meanwhile, those who aren't able to mask very well/at all will still have trouble gaining employment. It think such a scenario will be true of all disabilities, where those with dyslexia/dyscalculia etc. will be employed over those who need more significant adjustments and adaptations. I hope I'm wrong, but I seriously doubt it.

The main problem is representation in the media. This is why the abuse of disabled people and the disability wage gap etc. are seldom discussed. We still have a situation where the likes of the BBC etc. still seem reluctant to move forward with disability with the sort of fervour and determination that is the case with gender or race. As with our parliament, disability rights are still seen as (largely) optional.

This was summed up by a recent article I read in the Independent. A woman who worked for a company who was holding a diversity and inclusion board meeting, said that one of the senior board members mentioned how important such things are to corporate and societal progression. But when the woman mentioned disability, he simply laughed dismissively.

I've noticed this phenomenon when talking about violence and hate speech. Whenever anyone is violent or openly ableist to disabled people, most people claim it derives from genuine ignorance. Of course, were this to be said of gendered or racist behaviour, the anti-racists/feminists would rightly be livid.

You only have to look at this forum. There is no doubt that the moderators do a very difficult job admirably, but whenever any discussions come up about PIPs or disability benefits the usual ableist posters come out of the woodwork, spouting their vitriol. Similarly, when the topics turn to autism, particularly non-verbal autistic males are often painted by some as sexual predators and rapists (numerous studies show that it is virtually unheard of for non-verbal autistic males to commit violent or sexual crimes.) The relationship section of this site is also a case in point, where there are numerous threads frequently insulting (and generalising about) autistic partners (mostly males), the vast majority of whom - surprise surprise - are undiagnosed or are simply diagnosed by the OP (or other posters on the thread.)

The frequent threads about autistic people making excuses about bad behaviour are a case in point. Yes, I have no doubt that some do (though, from experience, it's not normally they themselves, who do this, but usually their parent(s)) I also have a strong hunch that the few who do this themselves are mainly self-diagnosed.) But, anyway, in the age of self-entitlement and victim culture, why should they be singled out? Afterall, haven't many high profile politicians and celebrities used their protected group status (of various kinds) as a go-to-excuse for bad behaviour. You see this a lot even on Mumsnet. Like with disability, it's a minority of people, but still...

Which takes me back to my original point. Even though I am neither a fan of identity politics nor the woke agenda, it is clearly here to stay for the foreseeable. If it's good enough for other groups, surely it's only right that disabled are invited to the party. Starting from now.

OP posts:
SensibleGuy · 23/07/2024 17:06

Oops, please excuse my typos and grammatical errors. It's my first post!😂

OP posts:
ExtraOnions · 23/07/2024 17:16

I have never seen a thread where non-verbal, Autistic Males, are typified as Sex-offenders

Disability is a protected characteristic, and therefore monitored in many areas

I can’t work out from your post, what it is you are annoyed about - that Disabled people are under-represented? over-represented (through self-diagnosis)?, having “bad behaviour” excused, or not being accommodated ? are you saying the the Autistic people shouldn’t be treated differently, as that would make them part of “victim culture” ?

My DD is (fully diagnosed) ASD .. we have had lots of support in general. You get a few idiots on here, but outweighed by other people.

WishIMite · 23/07/2024 17:18

This post sounds like it was written with AI. What point are you trying to make?

FindThatThing · 23/07/2024 17:21

I’m beyond tired of people complaining about ’woke’.
And how these ’woke’ people (!) forced them to be far-right or whatever.
Why don’t you just admit you’re anti
insert-whatever-group-you-have-a-problem-with.

ntmdino · 23/07/2024 17:21

But, anyway, in the age of self-entitlement and victim culture, why should they be singled out?

Because autistic folk are easy targets. Either we're less able to defend themselves against criticism, or when we do vigorously defend ourselves...we're told that we don't fully understand it because we're autistic, or we're told that we're not really autistic because we're able to communicate well enough to defend ourselves in the first place.

It's a self-fulfilling argument, and thus gives the person/people on the attack that warm, fuzzy feeling of Winning On The Internet, without any thought to the fact that the autistic person on the other end of it will either sit and obsess over it to the exclusion of all other functioning for days or weeks, or they'll be crushed under the weight of impostor syndrome whether they have a full diagnosis or not.

MereDintofPandiculation · 23/07/2024 17:27

People with disabilities are the only group entitled to a job interview if they meet the requirements in the advert.

Yes, people with disabilities do have a rough time of it, and we see some dreadful examples in the news, but I don't think it's quite accurate to say "disabled people are excluded from the diversity and inclusion agenda."

NeedToChangeName · 23/07/2024 17:33

When I see staff with their preferred pronouns on their email, I roll my eyes and think it's an easy way for employers to pretend they care about inclusion without actually making any effort or spending money

So, in that sense, yes I'd like to see inclusion extended to people with disabilities ie employers putting their money where their mouth is

Is this what you meant, OP?

AgnesX · 23/07/2024 17:34

Just lately my email box has been full of neuro diversity training of every variety. I do think it's brilliant but it would be nice if physical disabilities could be looked more closely. i can't get into the place without someone opening a door which pisses me off no end (no automatic doors or gates). And the same indoors.

SensibleGuy · 23/07/2024 17:39

@AgnesX,

That's great to hear re: neurodiversity training. I agree about physical and other disabilities.

OP posts:
WildLemur · 23/07/2024 17:39

People talk about female or black (or Asian) presidents/prime ministers or CEOs, but the chances of a US president/British prime minister - whether white/black or male/female and having a clear or obvious disability is basically zero
Does Gordon Brown not count?

SensibleGuy · 23/07/2024 17:41

@NeedToChangeName,

Yes, it's exactly what I meant. I get frustrated that disability still seems so far behind other groups in terms of tackling inequalities, when every group/characteristic in society should have equal rights.

OP posts:
SensibleGuy · 23/07/2024 17:44

@WildLemur,

Yes, very true, he does.

But I think this also furthers my point in my original post that some disabilities perhaps carry more stigma (and discrimination) than others. I hope the new legislation goes some way to considering this.

OP posts:
ClaustrophobicKipper · 23/07/2024 17:54

I think the problem with us all "tackling" the latest trend/minority group is that is splits people and doesn't do what it originally intended to.

For example, I have never had a problem with trans community in my life, but now they have been wheeled out as the latest condescending lecture to dictate what we are and aren't allowed to say or think, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and sadly I do find my views shifting a little. Not for the lovely genuine trans, but for people that are jumping on the band wagon, inventing ways to feel special and control others.

The people who are horrible to others for being different, in whatever way that is, will continue to be so no matter what plans are put in place. And the average person who just wants to get on with life will see it for what it is. Yet another way to be told a group of people are struggling while the rest of us are skipping along living easy lives. (spoiler alert, they're not! Nobody is. Life is hard for everyone in one way or another)

JollyPinkFox · 23/07/2024 17:55

To me ‘woke’ isn’t the same as being inclusive of actual disabilities so I’d disagree. Woke needs to end. Disability activism and inclusivity needs to continue/improve. If anything I think ‘woke’ does disabilities a disservice, people are so focused on made up conditions, sexualities and genders that there’s less focus on genuine disability

SensibleGuy · 23/07/2024 17:56

@ClaustrophobicKipper

I agree.

OP posts:
SensibleGuy · 23/07/2024 17:57

@JollyPinkFox

I agree with you re: woke.

OP posts:
Fizzib · 23/07/2024 17:58

FindThatThing · 23/07/2024 17:21

I’m beyond tired of people complaining about ’woke’.
And how these ’woke’ people (!) forced them to be far-right or whatever.
Why don’t you just admit you’re anti
insert-whatever-group-you-have-a-problem-with.

Hear hear!

coupdetonnerre · 23/07/2024 17:58

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

coupdetonnerre · 23/07/2024 17:59

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

EllenLRipley · 23/07/2024 17:59

I am disabled. The access facilities at venues in the UK has improved massively and I enjoy my life a lot more than I used to. Disabled people are front and centre of inclusion as far as I can see.
I don't want a fucking flag if that is what you're on about. Or a parade. I want to be treated the SAME as a 'normal person'. It seems to me a lot of the modern "inclusion" is about brands virtue signally whilst actually doing fuck all.

Are you a man with ASD by any chance?

Fullyflavoured · 23/07/2024 18:02

You lost me at 'woke'

crackofdoom · 23/07/2024 18:03

Autistic person here.

I think you should be very careful about dismissing those fighting for equality and inclusion as "woke".

Because you'll probably find out that they're the same people fighting for you and I.

SensibleGuy · 23/07/2024 18:08

@EllenLRipley

Yes, I agree about woke. Virtual signalling is all about looks IMO. It's fake and doesn't address real problems.

Yes, diagnosed as a young child.

@FindThatThing Nope, I'm anti-far right. As in my original post, I consider Brexit and Trump to be negative recent (crazy!) developments.

OP posts:
SensibleGuy · 23/07/2024 18:11

@crackofdoom

I'm 100% for those fighting for equality and inclusion, as per my original post. I suppose it depends what people mean by woke. It means different things to different people. I see it as ingenuine and fake. But others may not.

OP posts:
SockQueen · 23/07/2024 18:17

Franklin D. Roosevelt, one of the most well-known and well-respected Presidents of the USA, was in a wheelchair most of his life.

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